Re: PH Blog: Golf GTD eight years apart
Discussion
rallycross said:
Nothing much worse than having to run a VAG 4 cylinder diesel - horrible horrible things.
Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
You said that all so perfectly!Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
330d / 530d (if you need the extra space) is the way forward. One of the best powerplants ever made.
Plus, you get so many common issues with those VAGS..
On the MK4 Golfs for example:
Faulty front & rear wiper motors / weak gearboxes / dodgy window regulators / clutches / dual mass flywheels, etc.
I know this from experience, as my sister had one, as did a good friend of mine. None achieved brilliant fuel economy either...
If you really want a VAG model, go for the A3 over the Golf - much better build quality, and less goes wrong....
Still for that sort of money, would rather have the BM!
Garett said:
I agree completely. I test drove a Golf MK 4 Tdi 130, an Audi A4 Tdi 110 and a Passat Tdi and in the end I came to the conclusion that the Volvo S60 D5 I test drove first was the best car.
They were all the same price there or there abouts with the Golfs commanding more money than similar Passats but with less kit. The Volvo also won on this front too with leather and a whole load of toys as standard. I get 50 mpg if I stick to the NSL on the motorways on my 40 mile each way commute with 6 miles of town in there too.
The VAGs of similar vintage may return slightly better figures its not that much of a difference and the extra comfort and extra oomph offered by an extra cylinder and an extra 500cc over the VAG units more that makes up for it!
EXACTLY.They were all the same price there or there abouts with the Golfs commanding more money than similar Passats but with less kit. The Volvo also won on this front too with leather and a whole load of toys as standard. I get 50 mpg if I stick to the NSL on the motorways on my 40 mile each way commute with 6 miles of town in there too.
The VAGs of similar vintage may return slightly better figures its not that much of a difference and the extra comfort and extra oomph offered by an extra cylinder and an extra 500cc over the VAG units more that makes up for it!
With the extra two cylinders, and 1100cc, I do enjoy putting my foot down when an annoying tw@t in a white A3 / Golf tdi with running lights is up my arse, and leaving them in a cloud of my black soot smoke!
pSyCoSiS said:
rallycross said:
Nothing much worse than having to run a VAG 4 cylinder diesel - horrible horrible things.
Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
You said that all so perfectly!Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
330d / 530d (if you need the extra space) is the way forward. One of the best powerplants ever made.
Plus, you get so many common issues with those VAGS..
On the MK4 Golfs for example:
Faulty front & rear wiper motors / weak gearboxes / dodgy window regulators / clutches / dual mass flywheels, etc.
I know this from experience, as my sister had one, as did a good friend of mine. None achieved brilliant fuel economy either...
If you really want a VAG model, go for the A3 over the Golf - much better build quality, and less goes wrong....
Still for that sort of money, would rather have the BM!
I just don't subscribe to the Sporty Golf diesel thing, they do a reasonable job but they are expensive and not that interesting, coupled with the fact that a fair proportion of them are driven by utter knobsocks doesn't help, I went to a school reunion and this lad (who to be a air, was a cretin at school) had one and after a drink was getting quite aggressive, telling anyone he collared why it was better than their chosen vehicle.
There seems to be a false economy thing with them as well, people will pay silly money for worn smooth examples of the Mk4, still and then they don't really do as much to the gallon as people would suggest they do. Chap I know sold a Discovery V8 at a huge loss (8 grand in a year) and then bought a Golf tdi for 20 grand and told me how much he was saving on his 6k miles a year.
Plus the latest "We buy any car" ad has some chimp who has sold his Saxo and is going to buy a Golf Tdi "Sweet" apparently.
Then there are the "Like a Golf" ads, VW are so smug and the cars just arent that great and are overpriced. BMW I feel wear their smugness well, they are at the top of their game, VW just arent.
[quote=J4CKO]
Surely the A3 is the same shell, engine and mechanicals with an Audi badge on and some different lights ?
quote]
The under-pinnings may be the same, however, there is a noticeable difference in cabin quality between them.
The Audi just feels that much better-built. All the switchgear feels more solid, and they tend to somehow wear better and last longer. I also think they look slightly better (2001 to 2003 models) than the equivalent Mark 4 Golfs.
Again, I'm not making this up, my sister is now on her 3rd Audi A3, and says she will never go back to a Golf.
I tried to persuade her to get a BMW - but she finds the E46 Coupe a little too big, and hates the look of the E46 Compact (rightly so!). For her, the A3 is the default choice. Think she'll be getting the S3 next!
Surely the A3 is the same shell, engine and mechanicals with an Audi badge on and some different lights ?
quote]
The under-pinnings may be the same, however, there is a noticeable difference in cabin quality between them.
The Audi just feels that much better-built. All the switchgear feels more solid, and they tend to somehow wear better and last longer. I also think they look slightly better (2001 to 2003 models) than the equivalent Mark 4 Golfs.
Again, I'm not making this up, my sister is now on her 3rd Audi A3, and says she will never go back to a Golf.
I tried to persuade her to get a BMW - but she finds the E46 Coupe a little too big, and hates the look of the E46 Compact (rightly so!). For her, the A3 is the default choice. Think she'll be getting the S3 next!
Garlick said:
Inner London commuting was showing high 20's into early 30's.
A wet (and therefore not that fast) motorway run to the coast this weekend saw 39mpg. My Dad had a GTD for a bit and saw late 40's so with care a decent MPG is achievable, but normal driving see's late 30's as a rule....at least with me it does.
Garlick that's terrible MPG. A wet (and therefore not that fast) motorway run to the coast this weekend saw 39mpg. My Dad had a GTD for a bit and saw late 40's so with care a decent MPG is achievable, but normal driving see's late 30's as a rule....at least with me it does.
Care to share what you achieved on that lovely RS2 just asca benchmark
pSyCoSiS said:
330d / 530d (if you need the extra space) is the way forward.
...
Still for that sort of money, would rather have the BM!
Me I tried the 2L petrol Golf (boring) and the 170d A3 (narrow rev range)....
Still for that sort of money, would rather have the BM!
Ended up with the 2L turbo petrol. (ie the GTI - which is nice for the commute; TVR for fun days!)
Anyway, isn't the 330d, say, £7k more (28%) than the GTD. (Looking at New List prices.)
So should we look at the 120d or the 318d touring, or possibly a 320d Saloon?
How do they stack up, or does one need to save up or go S/H?
Dad has an old 525Xi shed and Sis-in-law has just got a 520d Touring, but it's a large barge compared to the GTI.
Edited by davepen on Monday 12th March 13:44
Welshbeef said:
Garlick said:
Inner London commuting was showing high 20's into early 30's.
A wet (and therefore not that fast) motorway run to the coast this weekend saw 39mpg. My Dad had a GTD for a bit and saw late 40's so with care a decent MPG is achievable, but normal driving see's late 30's as a rule....at least with me it does.
Garlick that's terrible MPG. A wet (and therefore not that fast) motorway run to the coast this weekend saw 39mpg. My Dad had a GTD for a bit and saw late 40's so with care a decent MPG is achievable, but normal driving see's late 30's as a rule....at least with me it does.
Care to share what you achieved on that lovely RS2 just asca benchmark
Garlick said:
IIRC it was early 20's mainly. Wish I'd kept it.
Yep. Still better to have owned an icon than never at all. (plus you could always get another - so so so much better in every way over a diesel golf and that's from a diesel fan)
pps let Harris have the office funds to get that 456 or an even better older classic car in need of big restoration saving a classic.
rallycross said:
Nothing much worse than having to run a VAG 4 cylinder diesel - horrible horrible things.
Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
How does a dsg run out of revs before achieving the car's top speed?Noisy rattly rough unpleasant engines.
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads, narrow power band, runs out of rev's quite quickly, noisy in stop start traffic, jerky with the DSG in traffic. A hugely over-rated car. Buy a 330d instead.
Our dsg is perfect in traffic.
Agree about the BMW but it's another game costs wise.
blearyeyedboy said:
Can't vouch for the Beemer or the Merc but as far as the VW goes: you must have a bad remap, you're constantly in traffic jame or you're constantly driving your Scirocco at the rev limiter. That's woeful mpg.
Never had a VW before so when the opportunity came along took it with both hands, plus hadn’t anything sporty to drive since the wife and kids came along (you know the script!!!) The car looked great but within a day it was back at VW with a burnt out wheel bearing and shredded tyre, after a two day wait to sort out, got the thing back and at the time it was freezing up here so off we went to the lakes for a day out. The car started over revving so much so I was fiscally looking at the peddle to see if it was jammed!! Switch the car off and fire it up again it was ok for few miles, so next day back to VW, that afternoon call from VW to say they were ordering some parts for the air box that were missing !!
As the weather got better so did the car but on cold morning there was still a hint of over run, so in the summer 2009 the car was remapped this sorted all the overrun problems and was like a missile (well to me it was fast) but after the first week I noticed that £30 of juice was only lasting 3 days not a week as the norm, and as I did not pay the fuel bill not a problem!!
After 2 years circumstances changed and I was footing the fuel bill so the remap was remove to try and save some pennies but once again the overrun problem started again so it was time to get rid and never again !!!
Ps did get a rather snotty email from the accounts department over the £1160 of tyres used in the first year!!
davepen said:
Me I tried the 2L petrol Golf (boring) and the 170d A3 (narrow rev range).
Ended up with the 2L turbo petrol. (ie the GTI - which is nice for the commute; TVR for fun days!)
Anyway, isn't the 330d, say, £7k more (28%) than the GTD. (Looking at New List prices.)
So should we look at the 120d or the 318d touring, or possibly a 320d Saloon?
How do they stack up, or does one need to save up or go S/H?
Dad has an old 525Xi shed and Sis-in-law has just got a 525 Touring, but it's a large barge compared to the GTI.
I suppose when buying new, you're right, they will be more expensive! But, as a used buy, I think it would be the better choice.Ended up with the 2L turbo petrol. (ie the GTI - which is nice for the commute; TVR for fun days!)
Anyway, isn't the 330d, say, £7k more (28%) than the GTD. (Looking at New List prices.)
So should we look at the 120d or the 318d touring, or possibly a 320d Saloon?
How do they stack up, or does one need to save up or go S/H?
Dad has an old 525Xi shed and Sis-in-law has just got a 525 Touring, but it's a large barge compared to the GTI.
From your above choices, I'd go go for a 318d Touring - surprisingly brisk for what they are. You have the added room with the touring model.
Those old E34 525iX are rare cars, having 4wd.
ive noticed that the bmw boys are having a go at the vag tdi lumps for being unreliable. I'm sure the bmw dervs suffer with swirl pots and weak turbos on the 20d engine.
Yes vag did stick with the PD a bit too long which are alot noiser than the newer CR engines and a lot more crude.
Dont get me wrong though ive got my eye out for a nice 330 or 335d.
Yes vag did stick with the PD a bit too long which are alot noiser than the newer CR engines and a lot more crude.
Dont get me wrong though ive got my eye out for a nice 330 or 335d.
rallycross said:
Last one I had was a 2007 Td170 Gti DSG - horrible thing to run, quite often saw it down to mid 30's driven hard up on A roads....
What exactly, were you expecting? Drive any car hard and the MPG drops significantly. You'll be lucky to get mid 30's in most petrol cars with that power when driven sensibly, never mind hard. 
dukebox9reg said:
ive noticed that the bmw boys are having a go at the vag tdi lumps for being unreliable. I'm sure the bmw dervs suffer with swirl pots and weak turbos on the 20d engine.
Yes vag did stick with the PD a bit too long which are alot noiser than the newer CR engines and a lot more crude.
Dont get me wrong though ive got my eye out for a nice 330 or 335d.
You're right they do suffer certain faults - as do all engines.Yes vag did stick with the PD a bit too long which are alot noiser than the newer CR engines and a lot more crude.
Dont get me wrong though ive got my eye out for a nice 330 or 335d.
But generally, I think you'll find that BMW does make the better engine. Even the 320d is a class leader for what it is.
12 years ago, there was nothing to touch the 530d in terms of the all round package.
Anyway - everyone has their own opinion. I have owned several A4 TDIs in the past. They are good around town, but seem to run out of huff on longer motorway runs, at higher speeds. Thats where the 6 pot diesels come into their own....
pSyCoSiS said:
blearyeyedboy said:
Not sure if serious...
.. but still,
That's from my experience of them..... but still,
But naturally, the VAG boys will be getting all excited and ready to shoot me by this point!
I don't care - the equivalent BMW always drives better!
But my experience of A3's, Golfs and Octavias is that their build quality was much of a muchness. I drive an Octavia but I've piloted A3's and Golfs in the past. Like you, I thought the 1 series drove better if you ditch the RFT's
but was much pricier when I bought my car.masermartin said:
My thoughts on my 130PD Bora:
I'd suggest there's something wrong with that, then.- Terrible at power delivery (nothing below 1500, then *wallop* everything arrives at 1800 and tails off after 2500
The higher BHP you go, the more laggy the 1.9s tend to be but my experience of having owned several VAG 1.9s is that the 130s are usually a lot more flexible than that.
Try a new MAF and cleaning the EGR. (I've also removed and capped off the vacuum pipe for the latter, which stops the EGR from functioning and you end up with a cleaner, cooler supply of air being fed to the engine as a result).
Also, I've just had problems with the VNT on the turbo of my 115. The solution was a clean of the VNT ring gear (easy - it's getting the turbo out to do it that's a ballache), and a new actuator.
Net result is it now pulls from 1200rpm and revs right through to the red line, so definitely something to consider. :-)
Edited by SteveC123 on Thursday 15th March 03:40
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