RE: McLaren: the inside story

[darth_pies]

Wammer said:

I have just read this article and i don't understand why the Mclaren Issues are such a big deal.

If you build a brand around the idea of relentless, anal perfectionism and world-class attention to detail you are bound to get burned when your product is shipped with some obvious faults. Its like the Apple iPhone 4 'antenna-gate' or iPad 3 'wifi-gate' but much more serious because those are premium mass market products, not hand-built supercars.

[Rich_W]

herebebeasties said:

paul0843 said:

If Ron worries about tile cuts then IMO he doesn't have time to worry about his real business of making cars.

On the contrary - if it's best to move into a new building ASAP, then you do that by eliminating or reducing things on the critical path, and if there's a big six-week item on there called "cutting up tiles to lay the floor" then you surely do the obvious thing there...

I suspect it depends on how fast you cut them! Lets assume they only cut the ones on the edge of the flooring. (and even then only on 2 sides of the building) I can't see it taking 6 weeks!

Regards the IRIS and other issues. As many have said, if McLaren hadn't PR'd the car to death it would be fine, but they banged on and on and on about how they were the best. And it's bitten them, so they'll have to accept it being an issue to many. On a related note, what is IRIS going to do that is so forward thinking that no existing product could be adapted? £150 TomToms are pretty good nowadays. £200 iPods are pretty good these days. How much is IRIS on the spec list again?

ref Ferrari issues being left unresolved. Is that ACTUALLY true? I can't believe Ferrari would allow that in the same way I wouldn't expect McLaren/Porsche/whoever to not do something about it.

[graeme4130]

Blackpuddin said:

graeme4130 said:

I was lucky enough to get a tour around the road car factory and met some of the lower end management team
They were like an army of little Ron's and seemed to consider themselves the top of their game - I'm not sure that mindset or ethos accepts criticism well

Interesting insight. I've been there and chatted to the Chief Engineer and the Design Manager, both of whom have worked there for years, they struck me as pretty down to earth guys who are very excited about what's coming up next. Re the design of the MTC, I thought the production room was a fantastic workplace but I was less sure about the overall flow of the premises. The transitions between sections seem unduly long, like walking to the Gatwick terminal building from a satellite stand. I was a bit surprised employees weren't given access to Segways or bicycles to get around.

It seemed it was all very 'look how clean and efficient' we are, but actually, if you undertook a streamlining exercise on the production generally, you'd realise it was perhaps all show and no go
Still, the product they turn out is stunning and I don't think they're struggling to fill their order books, so chapeau to them

[NGK210]

Sod the tiles! I'm alarmed to learn that the MP412C relies on an off-the-shelf Microsoft OS. And that many other cars also rely on the same Gates tat - "Doomed, I tell ye, we're all doomed!"

By the way, anyone know if the early Koenigseggs were blighted with MP412C-style maladies?

[ANDYCLAX]

zippycar said:

Can’t understand the constant put down of a great British company and product?

We should be proud of such a fantastic achievement for a true first McLaren “mass produced” car.

The early cars had unexpected issues, hence the stopping of production to put them right and mine has been 100% reliable and functional (bar IRIS of course).

I was at MTC a couple of weeks ago with seven other owners giving feedback over lunch on our cars to Antony Sheriff in person. Would Luca di Montezemolo give up as much time? (2 hours and not in a hurry to get rid of us either)

The issues with the sat nav and Bluetooth are because McLaren don’t want to use what is already out there, but something far better and superior. They are the first to admit that achieving this has taken far longer than they expected, but like most owners, I am more than happy to have my car now, minus IRIS, than to wait months and miss out on the incredible owner experience.

McLaren is obviously not for everyone, but I have bought into it and so far the whole pre and post ownership experience has been vastly superior to any other manufacturer that I have experienced.

Same here,it was a very informative day.The most impressive part was that they wanted to know our opinions and ask for customer feedback,not only was Antony Sherrif there,but the factory manager ,head of R+D and the europeam sales manager,not a bad group to question 8 early customers,not one of our queries fell on deaf ears and many had answers that were far more in depth than we expected (hence some of the time delays).They are on the case its just that they are doing it on a timescale never seen before.To most they should have delayed,but to most customers they wouldnt have wanted them to,and to be in at the start is something that no-one will ever experience again ,so it was well worth the tiny problems we have had.

[speedy_thrills]

To be fair most car enthusiasts loved their last couple of product lines (SLR and F1). I don't think it's anti-British sentiment driving many comments, after all we aren't that keen on many American and Italian sports cars either.

[A Scotsman]

I wonder if they'd like to buy Lotus.

[Rich_W]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

This isn't the Daily Mail (yet!) - WTF is everyone bleating on about Tiles for ?
Yes, it may be true. Yes, you internet warriors may take issue with it. I am sure the construction company, Architects and the client discussed the various merits of cutting / not cutting (anyone considered it would save the Actual quantity of tiles required ) and did what they did.

Seriously this is the fking problem with the media in one way or another. Morsels are seized and dwelled on that really have fk all bearing on the big Pictures.
Jerry Cans / Pasties anyone.......

There's 2 points to people mentioning it. If you saw the recent behind-the-scenes program you would have seen Ron annoyed that a replacement tile was slightly different colour as it was from a later batch. The tiles have become synonimous with the OCD levels Ron has.

The second part is as you say, worrying about tiles being cut is hardly the bigger picture. So why did McLaren do it in the first place? Why not put that effort into more important areas?

NGK210 said:

By the way, anyone know if the early Koenigseggs were blighted with MP412C-style maladies?

Far, far, far, worse reliabilty! Have you seen the car on the Gumball DVD? Broke down constantly! Even Fifth Gears review of the car was cut short because it broke down. The importers did say that the first owners knew that going in, but you wonder...

[mr bridger]

Not forgetting Ron's old tried & tested method of checking said tiles are then laid correctly, that of "skimming" a credit card over the floor to check it's level...!
The car (MP4-12C) is a great car by the way imho!
Mr B.

[bertie]

NGK210 said:

Sod the tiles! I'm alarmed to learn that the MP412C relies on an off-the-shelf Microsoft OS. And that many other cars also rely on the same Gates tat - "Doomed, I tell ye, we're all doomed!"

It's no different to any BMW or Mercedes and in any of them it's only the nav / infotainment in cars that use Microsoft / Linux or other OS, the main critical functional networks don't.

[Schnellmann]

monthefish said:

That's got nothing to do with it.

He should be at the factory 24/7 (or as near to it as reasonably possible) sorting the issues and leading from the front. His 'weekends' can come in 6 months time.

Rather presumptuous comments. How do you know he was not working? I haved "rushed" out of the office at 6:30, but only so I can take the next conference call from home.

Interesting article. I have just recently been invited to a day with Mclaren, including factory visit and I'm looking forward to it.

MP4 looks better to me each time I see one and it is epic to drive, although not certain about some points, especially the doors as it strikes me you can't park next to other cars and guarantee you will be able to get in.

[SonnyM]

GFWilliams said:

Jezz172 said:

Great pics too.
But what else would we expect lol

Thanks

Seeing as the first shot got chopped a little:

I must the photos are so good I clicked on every one of them - they have that Apple UI "looks so good you want to lick it" allure to them... Great job!

[bertie]

Having been around Mclaren and Ferrari factories within the last few weeks I have to say the quality of engineering righ from the carbon tub upwards is in a different legue at Mclaren.

Behind the outer trim, everything from the carbon tub, the precision machined suspension, the attention to detail and the accuracy and precision of construction makes the Ferrari look very old had and crude.

[SonnyM]

bertie said:

NGK210 said:

Sod the tiles! I'm alarmed to learn that the MP412C relies on an off-the-shelf Microsoft OS. And that many other cars also rely on the same Gates tat - "Doomed, I tell ye, we're all doomed!"

It's no different to any BMW or Mercedes and in any of them it's only the nav / infotainment in cars that use Microsoft / Linux or other OS, the main critical functional networks don't.

Perhaps McLaren are rewriting the OS or have turned to something more reliable / decent performance to run IRIS on, like a UNIX base.

[bertie]

SonnyM said:

Perhaps McLaren are rewriting the OS or have turned to something more reliable / decent performance to run IRIS on, like a UNIX base.

No. But like I said its neither here nor here.

[Panda76]

I,m not sure if this has been posted yet (read as too lazy to read 5 pages)
But did anyone watch the factory series that was on Discovery when they did a building the Mclaren on Discovery?
That place is pristine and has OCD written all over it,which is a good thing imo.
One part of that that sticks in my mind is Ron Dennis walking with the camera crew into reception and stops at a tile.It was a tile that was replaced as the old one was broken and now doesn't match the exact same colour of the other tiles and it annoys him everyday because it doesn't look right.He specifically made a point about it.
He said,he just wants things to be right.

[delta037]

I'm just amazed that photography was allowed even out of working hours! Well done GFW and Traxx. An interesting article too.

[UK952]

Are front number plates optional / rotating / clip on?

[Big Six]

Makes me feel pround to be British.

[ANDYCLAX]

UK952 said:

Are front number plates optional / rotating / clip on?

£60 fine,but no points,and you have to go to an MOT centre to varify they have been put back on.Its one of those grey areas,depending on how nice you are to the officer