RE: PH Fleet: BMW M5 (E28)
Discussion
Output Flange said:
B'stard Child said:
Ahh not so good for longevity compared to a duplex set up - I'd say 100K and a change on any simplex chain was a good move
Have you ever seen an M88 simplex chain snap?The M88/3 as mounted in the E28 and E24 were the only example of simplex chains on this engine. All of my engine design colleagues involved in chain design say the only reason BMW would have gone to a Duplex chain was due to either chain stretch or snapping and to rectify this.
Some folks actually retro fit the duplex chain from the later models but this is not insignificant and requires machining of the case and cover for clearance.
In addition there has been a tensioner upgrade also.
The worst case scenario is when the cars been standing and the engine is cold- where the probability of chain jumping is highest. A good engineer can listen out for it also but it's safer to dismantle and check like I did.
Output Flange said:
B'stard Child said:
Ahh not so good for longevity compared to a duplex set up - I'd say 100K and a change on any simplex chain was a good move
Have you ever seen an M88 simplex chain snap?Some have been know to go on for 160K miles before going but would you want to risk wrecking an engine on a Lotus Carlton - not exactly plentifull in breakers yards
Failure mode is very consistant - tears the link pin thro the side plate when it has enough slack to try to jump a tooth and then finds it hasn't enough slack to fully complete that step........
B'stard Child said:
Output Flange said:
B'stard Child said:
Ahh not so good for longevity compared to a duplex set up - I'd say 100K and a change on any simplex chain was a good move
Have you ever seen an M88 simplex chain snap?Some have been know to go on for 160K miles before going but would you want to risk wrecking an engine on a Lotus Carlton - not exactly plentifull in breakers yards
Failure mode is very consistant - tears the link pin thro the side plate when it has enough slack to try to jump a tooth and then finds it hasn't enough slack to fully complete that step........
Marquis Rex said:
I think it's very good advice to change the chain around 100K. The only issue with comparing to other cars is that the loads are very different as is the design. If you compare the 24 valve M5/6 engines with their 12 valve M30 bretheren for instance: The M30 with its simplex chain will go on for up to 200,000 miles and this is a very similar design to the BMW twin cam. A similar story can be painted for many Mercedes engines with a Simplex chain so it should be considered on a case by case basis
Yup, if not longer. Last e34 535i I drove had over 230k on the clock and was on its original chain and was fine. Great Pretender said:
Phil's total revenue this year is down signficantly on account that I no longer own a recalititrant M car, but no matter, what that man doesn't know about BMWs, isn't worth knowing.
And without wishing to turn this thread into a handbag sligner, I'd avoid ML like plague of plagues with the plague.
Not to worry about Phil, I will be visiting again soon to figure out what the dodgy vibrations are on my e39!And without wishing to turn this thread into a handbag sligner, I'd avoid ML like plague of plagues with the plague.
Marquis Rex said:
B'stard Child said:
Output Flange said:
B'stard Child said:
Ahh not so good for longevity compared to a duplex set up - I'd say 100K and a change on any simplex chain was a good move
Have you ever seen an M88 simplex chain snap?Some have been know to go on for 160K miles before going but would you want to risk wrecking an engine on a Lotus Carlton - not exactly plentifull in breakers yards
Failure mode is very consistant - tears the link pin thro the side plate when it has enough slack to try to jump a tooth and then finds it hasn't enough slack to fully complete that step........
C30SE and C36GET I'm 99% certain that the tensioners and guides create the opportunity for the chain to jump a tooth - however are you really going to strip the front of an engine down and just replace those items and leave the old chain and sprockets - I wouldn't
I changed my LC chain at 25K miles and I'll change everything again before I sell the car (I've got all the parts tucked away ready so it's not like it's going to cost me anything) - I can do it in 8-10 hours on my own but then I have changed rather a lot of them over the last 15 years even got involved in a how too video for the benefit of other club members.
I fully understand the point you're making - the timing chain guides went on my E39 540i, and I currently have a '99 XJR so know all about timing chain and associated paraphenalia issues - just that in the 6 years or so that I've been around E28 fora and from knowing a number of E28 M5 owners, I've never heard a first-hand story of having issues, including (as mentioned previously) a car on the original timing gear with 160k miles.
Chris, sounds like this could well just be flooded - rather common especially if it was switched off when cold the last time it ran. Smell of fuel and rather fast cranking are consistant with this. Just pop the plugs out and dry them, and perhaps add a drop or two of oil down the plug holes before refitting.
Failing that, Mark at MJF Engineering is the man. I work on all makes and he's the guy I call when I'm stuck on a Beemer (which he no doubt finds quite annoying!)
Failing that, Mark at MJF Engineering is the man. I work on all makes and he's the guy I call when I'm stuck on a Beemer (which he no doubt finds quite annoying!)
I must say, I'm with Mr Harris on the e28 M5. A car I have always lusted over since seeing one while a green work experience boy at a BMW dealership.
Ended up going the 3.0 e36 M3 coupe (mint and never drove a car before that you could feel every millimeter the arse stepped out) route, followed by a 3.6 e34 M5 individual, loved both. Maybe will have another, once children and wives become cheaper!
Ended up going the 3.0 e36 M3 coupe (mint and never drove a car before that you could feel every millimeter the arse stepped out) route, followed by a 3.6 e34 M5 individual, loved both. Maybe will have another, once children and wives become cheaper!
Marquis Rex said:
Thanks!
Yes Chicago indeed! Well spotted, I've heard of Supercar Sundays but never actually gone yet.
I'm going to the May 5 event along with a couple of other local PHers new to US (shoebag and vetteheadracer). Check out www.supercarsaturdays.com or their FB page. Hope to see you there as not too many PHers around these parts. Yes Chicago indeed! Well spotted, I've heard of Supercar Sundays but never actually gone yet.
(Sorry for the thread hijack.)
Next to a 1984 M635Csi with the M5's engine (M88) the M5 would be the top of my list. I remember buying a small silver soft cover book the width of an A4 sheet of paper but 1/3rd the height that had the history of BMW sports cars up to and including the 8 series. It may have been an 8 series book with the first half dedicated the the DNA cars. In it was three or so pages on the M635CSi. That's the day I fell in love with my dream car. I have a 633CSi in the collection but one day that M635 will be mine!
Next to a 1984 M635Csi with the M5's engine (M88) the M5 would be the top of my list. I remember buying a small silver soft cover book the width of an A4 sheet of paper but 1/3rd the height that had the history of BMW sports cars up to and including the 8 series. It may have been an 8 series book with the first half dedicated the the DNA cars. In it was three or so pages on the M635CSi. That's the day I fell in love with my dream car. I have a 633CSi in the collection but one day that M635 will be mine!
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