RE: Ringside Seat: does the 'ring ruin road cars?
Discussion
mattlad said:
mat777 said:
However, I think I know the real reason why cars ride horribly these days. Everyone is interested in speccing the biggest, blingiest alloys that are offered on their car, with the lowest profile veneer of rubber covering them. Why? I'd far far rather ride in comfort on our rally-stage resembling roads than have my spine shattered just to show off parts I cant see when driving to bystanders who probably wont care. Both our Audi A4 and Fiat 500 have the smallest wheels offered and they ride infinitely better than friend's cars with monster wheel syndrome. Sure, they might not corner as hard before the tyres peel off, but when was the last time anyone explored anything approaching those limits in their daily drive cars anyway?
Wider, lower profile tyres will ride worse than narrower higher profile tyres. Bigger wheels will give you better ride quality FOR A GIVEN TYRE PROFILE than smaller wheels. French cars used to have a really good reputation for ride comfort (especially in the 70's / 80's) but part of the secret was that they used bigger wheels (with normal profile tyres) than their competitors used. Drive an old type Mini with 10" wheels and then try one with 12" wheels (both with standard profile tyres) and you will see what I mean!
So for best ride you want a larger rolling radius with relatively high profile tyres.
I remember a weekend last year when Jaguar had the launch of the XKRS, mostly that horrible blue, but some black ones too. These cars are fast and sound stunning.
However, doing this to impress future customers on the TF evening was positively bloody silly. Even if it was just after TG had just shown the test of the car against a GTR the weekend before.
The fact that a seriously quick amount of GTR and GT3's were out there only added to the frustration of those of us who had to pay to be on the track.
By all means test your cars, have a presence at Muespath and show off your wares but do it in your own time on private track time.
Yes, you know who you are!!
However, doing this to impress future customers on the TF evening was positively bloody silly. Even if it was just after TG had just shown the test of the car against a GTR the weekend before.
The fact that a seriously quick amount of GTR and GT3's were out there only added to the frustration of those of us who had to pay to be on the track.
By all means test your cars, have a presence at Muespath and show off your wares but do it in your own time on private track time.
Yes, you know who you are!!
I remember a weekend last year when Jaguar had the launch of the XKRS, mostly that horrible blue, but some black ones too. These cars are fast and sound stunning.
However, doing this to impress future customers on the TF evening was positively bloody silly. Even if it was just after TG had just shown the test of the car against a GTR the weekend before.
The fact that a seriously quick amount of GTR and GT3's were out there only added to the frustration of those of us who had to pay to be on the track.
By all means test your cars, have a presence at Muespath and show off your wares but do it in your own time on private track time.
Yes, you know who you are!!
However, doing this to impress future customers on the TF evening was positively bloody silly. Even if it was just after TG had just shown the test of the car against a GTR the weekend before.
The fact that a seriously quick amount of GTR and GT3's were out there only added to the frustration of those of us who had to pay to be on the track.
By all means test your cars, have a presence at Muespath and show off your wares but do it in your own time on private track time.
Yes, you know who you are!!
Rough bumpy 'real world' surfaces to test sports cars at full lick pre-production rather than perfect smooth test tracks. I can't see a downside.
A few laps at the Nurburg might have saved my Mk4 golf gti from it's habit of bottoming out and cracking the sump on bumpy b-roads.
I do think regular model cars like the Audi A3, A4 etc have got a bit stiff for comfort in recent generations but I don't think this relates to the Nurburg ring.
Surely more track focused, lightweight and focused sports models is a step in the right direction? I think they've been getting a bit lardy with tech in recent years. I bit more time spent of a focus on lap times might give us a few more modern cars to tempt my wallet.
The BMW 1M, Porsche Cayman R, Gt3 and Alfa 4C are about the only cars recently that have made my eyes widen. I think the joint Subaru/Toyota project needed a bit of back to the 90's giant turbo treatment to finish it properly, there's nothing worse than a lack of torque under your right foot when trying to enjoy tail out action but I liked the direction the project went in.
A few laps at the Nurburg might have saved my Mk4 golf gti from it's habit of bottoming out and cracking the sump on bumpy b-roads.
I do think regular model cars like the Audi A3, A4 etc have got a bit stiff for comfort in recent generations but I don't think this relates to the Nurburg ring.
Surely more track focused, lightweight and focused sports models is a step in the right direction? I think they've been getting a bit lardy with tech in recent years. I bit more time spent of a focus on lap times might give us a few more modern cars to tempt my wallet.
The BMW 1M, Porsche Cayman R, Gt3 and Alfa 4C are about the only cars recently that have made my eyes widen. I think the joint Subaru/Toyota project needed a bit of back to the 90's giant turbo treatment to finish it properly, there's nothing worse than a lack of torque under your right foot when trying to enjoy tail out action but I liked the direction the project went in.
This is quite cool, 60k km on the ring...
http://www.rent4ring.de/en/news/two-years-and-2800...
Designed for India
http://www.rent4ring.de/en/news/two-years-and-2800...
Designed for India
jamoor said:
This is quite cool, 60k km on the ring...
http://www.rent4ring.de/en/news/two-years-and-2800...
Designed for India
Wow; that's seriously impressive. Luxury manufacturers take note. This is what lightweight and simplicity combined with good engineering rigour can do.http://www.rent4ring.de/en/news/two-years-and-2800...
Designed for India
I don't think the ring ruins cars, but I do think some people just don't understand the product they are buying. For better or worse, when you pick the sportiest model, you get the most aggressive set up. OTOH, people love to moan about something, and I'm sure that if the pendulum had swung the other way, we'd be reading an article about so called "hot hatches" or "performance" models being too soft and not communicative or exhilirating enough.
Turbo Harry said:
Has James May ever actually driven the Nurburgring in order to understand what it's like?
Why would he need to? If he doesn't like driving around race tracks he won't like the ring either, and yes I know that "LOL Have you even been?" was the entire rebuttal to the other thread about the same thing.Consumer..."I want a fast, safe car"
Manufacturer..."here you go"
Consumer..."but it rides a little stiff"
Manufacturer..."I thought you wanted a fast, safe car, what you really wanted was a car that gives you cred, but that's nice and smooth and comfy"
I laugh at this whole topic. I've developed cars at the N-ring road, they end up being superb vehicles for travelling quickly along a bumpy b-road, because the N-ring is a really fast, really big bumpy b-road. Who's complaining? Maybe it's people who shouldn't of bought the car in the first place. An m3 is boring to drive slowly, it's not made to drive slowly.
Manufacturer..."here you go"
Consumer..."but it rides a little stiff"
Manufacturer..."I thought you wanted a fast, safe car, what you really wanted was a car that gives you cred, but that's nice and smooth and comfy"
I laugh at this whole topic. I've developed cars at the N-ring road, they end up being superb vehicles for travelling quickly along a bumpy b-road, because the N-ring is a really fast, really big bumpy b-road. Who's complaining? Maybe it's people who shouldn't of bought the car in the first place. An m3 is boring to drive slowly, it's not made to drive slowly.
EDLT said:
Turbo Harry said:
Has James May ever actually driven the Nurburgring in order to understand what it's like?
Why would he need to? If he doesn't like driving around race tracks he won't like the ring either, and yes I know that "LOL Have you even been?" was the entire rebuttal to the other thread about the same thing.It's more like a road. It's cambered with variable surfaces etc. Saying the Ring ruins road cars is therefore like saying a road ruins road cars. It's completely idiotic. Chasing lap times and setting up cars such that they are happy at 150mph at the expense of 40mph ruins road cars.
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