Cerbera With Reliable Engine - Worth More or Less ?

[DonkeyApple]

redgriff500 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Mr2Mike said:

DonkeyApple said:

It's kind of very relevant and I'm not saying it is OK for an engine to be unreliable.

It's still not relevant to the original post I quoted. You probably wouldn't want to put a different engine in your Honda or your Porsche because the one it comes with is very robust. The same logic can not be applied to the TVR, and the fact that the development budget for the AJP was very small by most manufacturers standards does not change this.

It's relevant to the sentence of your post that I was replying to.

I'm not convinced that the sole arguement is based around whether an engine is 'robust' or not. That's a bit of a budget arguement. There are plenty of classic cars out there where the engine is the heart and soul of the character of the car but not a robust engine. It isn't a reason to junk it and stick a Chevy in. Maybe it becomes more of a reason to do if you haven't the money to fund the upkeep? I don't know.

No one really cares what powertrain is in a snotter but there is clearly an arguement over character and originality when you are looking at more esoteric cars. People have even stuffed LS units in 911s. Why? Who knows but it was probably fun to do and fun to drive.

But when the TVR engines are built by proper people using proper parts and within the realms of common sense you get a product which is actually extremely reliable for such an immensely low volume product.

Obviously the classic argument here would be the AC Ace / Cobra - stick a big simple V8 in it and what happens ?

I can afford to buy 100+ TVR engines but it simply seems stupid to do so. I like telling people how I've only ever lost money on 3 cars in my life. Some prefer telling people how they've spent 5k a month maintaining theirs - I think they're mental, they think I'm tight.

The Cobra scenario falls into what I was saying on this thread the other day and that is the importance of 'brand' behind the conversion. If a bloke called Barry had dropped a V8 into an ACE then it wouldn't have gone down the same way. It was done as a brand and the value is assigned to the 'brand' rather than the actual vehicle. Take an ACE today and drop in a V8 and what you have is a completely fked AC ACE, not an AC Cobra

Likewise with the Cerb. Junking in the engine for something with more power and reliability like an LS3 is swings and roundabouts. Do it yourself for not much expense and the value of your car will plummet, pay someone else to do it and apply their 'brand' to it and it will hold it's value and quite possibly appreciate ahead of a standard Cerb in years to come but you've got that slight issue of paying £20+k to retain a value.

I'm not someone who has any issue with changing engines and can see the arguements for a Chevy unit. In this instance, I can't actually see an arguement for a RV8 one replacing an AJP.

Anyway, that £1m you've got to blow on 100 TVR engines should mean there is no actual concern on the value of a £15k old sports car

[redgriff500]

DonkeyApple said:

Anyway, that £1m you've got to blow on 100 TVR engines should mean there is no actual concern on the value of a £15k old sports car

You're paying too much for engines.

Secondly the way the rich stay rich is by not wasting their money.

[Mr2Mike]

DonkeyApple said:

In this instance, I can't actually see an arguement for a RV8 one replacing an AJP.

I'd certainly agree with that!

[dvs_dave]

redgriff500 said:

You're paying too much for engines.

Secondly the way the rich stay rich is by not wasting their money.

People are presenting the facts as they stand today, yet you remain intent on ignoring them. They have been presented by people far more knowledgeable on the subject than yourself, yet you frustratingly still believe the situation a decade ago holds true and your anecdotal evidence is validation.

Any deviation from the original engine will result in the car being worth considerably less than your investment into it.

[so called]

dvs_dave said:

People are presenting the facts as they stand today, yet you remain intent on ignoring them. They have been presented by people far more knowledgeable on the subject than yourself, yet you frustratingly still believe the situation a decade ago holds true and your anecdotal evidence is validation.

Any deviation from the original engine will result in the car being worth considerably less than your investment into it.

Hi Dave that's exactly what I was thinking.
How's Chicago ?
Greetings from sunny LA.
Oh and being as your Tuscan is probably the best set up of them all, I generally listen to your opinion.
When you selling it to me ?

I have the chance of getting my mits on a Sag.

Pub quiz time;-
Are my three terrible TVR engines
a) 1, b) 2, or c) 3 TVR engines too many ?
And
A) How many cars has that rich guy Jay Lenno got in his collection ?
B) Is he still rich ?

Edited by so called on Friday 27th April 04:15

[redgriff500]

so called said:

A) How many cars has that rich guy Jay Lenno got in his collection ?
B) Is he still rich ?

Buying cars isn't wasting money.

[redgriff500]

dvs_dave said:

redgriff500 said:

You're paying too much for engines.

Secondly the way the rich stay rich is by not wasting their money.

People are presenting the facts as they stand today, yet you remain intent on ignoring them. They have been presented by people far more knowledgeable on the subject than yourself, yet you frustratingly still believe the situation a decade ago holds true and your anecdotal evidence is validation.

Any deviation from the original engine will result in the car being worth considerably less than your investment into it.

Weird - I'm made money out of modified cars with the "wrong" engines in for the last 20+ years.

[900T-R]

I just had a 75,000 miles, 1998 4.5 opened up. The report back was it was still sporting the factory valve shims and it had a fair bit black sludge in the heads/valve covers due to wrong oil/intervals. No wonder it was feeling a bit under the weather. The engine man managed to bring it back to a fine running standard again, and when the time comes the owner will have it rebuilt as a 4.7. The option of an LS conversion ('if you really don't want to do any maintenance...') was discarded almost right after I spoke the words.

[Ozzie Osmond]

dvs_dave said:

Any deviation from the original engine will result in the car being worth considerably less than your investment into it.

Yes, that's the rule. Same with pretty much all modifications.

The used market likes its cars unmolested, leaving aside recognised specialist conversions.

[so called]

redgriff500 said:

Buying cars isn't wasting money.

He's got a TVR Tuscan with one of those terribly unreliable engines.

[redgriff500]

so called said:

redgriff500 said:

Buying cars isn't wasting money.

He's got a TVR Tuscan with one of those terribly unreliable engines.

I bet he doesn't do many miles in it !

:P

[so called]

redgriff500 said:

I bet he doesn't do many miles in it !

:P

Redgriff you drive me crazy !!!
Anyway, like I said, in North America the TVR Car Club has a 'modified' section in there shows. Members moved to TVR because there was far less attitude against modifying.
It doesn't answer the original question but shows a willingness and acceptance that wouldn't exist in other marks.
And again, speaking from first hand, paid for so got the right to say, experience of having a year 2000 Tuscan Speed6 engine rebuild and owning a post 2004 Tuscan, I for one am very happy and confident in the excellent work that people like Dom TVR Power and Jason Str8 Six do.

I don't care if people don't believe that a TVR engine can be reliable because, as I have said on previous threads, it simply leaves the few available TVR's to those of us that know better.

Edited by so called on Friday 27th April 20:23

[dvs_dave]

redgriff500 said:

Weird - I'm made money out of modified cars with the "wrong" engines in for the last 20+ years.

Really, do tell us more as you're onto a real winner if that truly is the case.

Although as you're clearly not interested in the facts or anything other than your own opinion, why did you come here asking the question?

[BlueEyedBoy]

About 5 years ago on here there was a Rover engined Cerbera for sale in the classifies, and was much debated. I think again the owner wanted more for it than a regular one. I think it was for sale for over a year, and not sure it if ever sold.

So maybe do the conversion and immediately put it up for sale, and it then gives you a period of about 2 years to keep lowering the price until you find the point of when you find that single interested new owner

[dvs_dave]

so called said:

How's Chicago ?
Greetings from sunny LA.
Oh and being as your Tuscan is probably the best set up of them all, I generally listen to your opinion.
When you selling it to me ?

I have the chance of getting my mits on a Sag.

Some warmer weather would be nice although spring is here so time to get back out to the car shows. No plans to sell the Tuscan as when funds allow I aim to bring it over to the States. This is where an LS3 conversion could make a lot of sense from an importing perspective, and then drop the Speed Six in a cheap old TVR that someone over here has already butchered with a Yank V8 conversion.
A Sag would be lovely and a very good investment, but only if you keep the original engine.

[so called]

Dave,
Sags is on the cards now. Wifey wants an Orangery so fairs fair
Also, check out the 'Tuscan in Florida' thread in TVR's in USA forum.
Thanks to another PH'er after missing it in Florida I finally got to see the Mk2 'Florida' Tuscan.
It's in an LA body Shop after a prang.
Called by and took some photo's today.
Guess what engines in it.

Edited by so called on Saturday 28th April 05:10

[Pig Skill]

I wouldn't buy a TVR if came with an engine warranted for infinity to be frank; they are just oh so 'mid life crisis' cars. They are normally owned by early 40's blokes with balding heads, a beer belly and a desperate longing to recapture some excitement in life. The cars are unreliable, they smell of glue, petrol and exhaust fumes and each one is virtually the same car just with a different 'wacky' exterior.

BUT, they have a huge following and are something of a cult car amongst petrol heads, so with that in mind it would be sacrilege for it to have a non TVR engine transplanted.

It would be an idea for some clever independent company to re engineer the engine (speed six?) to eliminate the failure modes and introduce some longevity backed by a warranty. This would unfortunately reduce the monthly forecast of the current crop that charge good money for a rebuild every 10k miles.

[dvs_dave]

So then Mr. Clooney what would you buy instead? Let me guess, a Troll M3 Edition?

[davemac250]

I've seen a few of his posts.

Prick is a word that comes to mind.

[PoleDriver]

Pig Skill said:

The cars are unreliable, they smell of glue, petrol and exhaust fumes and each one is virtually the same car just with a different 'wacky' exterior.

How many have you driven?

Pig Skill said:

It would be an idea for some clever independent company to re engineer the engine (speed six?) to eliminate the failure modes and introduce some longevity backed by a warranty.

There are two companies who have been doing this for some time. Or is a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty not enough for you?