RE: Driven: Lotus Elise S

RE: Driven: Lotus Elise S

Author
Discussion

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 30th April 2012
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kambites said:
yes Comfortable, yes (once you're in). Luxurious, no.
Quite so - fits me like a glove (though I've got short legs). Getting in and out is only difficult the first few times.

NGK210

2,866 posts

144 months

Monday 30th April 2012
quotequote all
Considering the Elise and Exige are indeed comfortable on a long journey and have sufficient boot space for a couple's weekend bags - is Lotus missing a trick?

Might make sense if the standard Elise and Exige had a bit of soundproofing/carpets and a taller top gear, so at motorway speeds the stereo could be heard and driver and passenger needn't resort to shout when conversing. Sorted - the Elise and Exige become 'everyday' cars, thus appealing to a wider customer base.

In turn, what are currently the standard models could be marketed as lightweight, hardcore/trackday specials - lob in some Lexan windows, a carbonfibre dash or suchlike, ditch the carpets/soundproofing and fit the current 'sprint' gearbox - and charge a hefty premium.

It's a business plan that seems to have worked quite well for Ferrari and Porsche over the years? scratchchin

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Monday 30th April 2012
quotequote all
I think it's the difficulty of entry and exit that makes it unsuitable for a lot of people as an everyday car. What proportion of the population is clinically obese?

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 30th April 2012
quotequote all
They tried that with the Europa. I don't think an Elise platform car will ever cut it as a "luxury sports car", it's too small and the ingress and exit puts off that sort of buyer. An Elise works best when it is an Elise, not when it tries to be something it isn't.

Zajda

135 posts

146 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
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I'm all about that stripped out CR, but long gear ratios killing this car. So for me it would be either S or CR + gearbox swap. It could be fun to squeeze every last bit of performance out of low powered engine, but not when it's constantly out of functional RPM range and you can't do anything about it. It's like plague on many new cars, only because nice numbers drop out from EU consumption test that way.


Edited by Zajda on Friday 21st September 22:58

98elise

26,366 posts

160 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have no doubts i could build a kit car that's faster than the elise S for less than 36k

fibreglass, its light but has zero structural integrity in a crash

nothing wrong with the tub, the RnD costs on it are well covered and it lasts well


cars are just very expensive now i guess frown
I'd be very surprised if you could build a similar, entirely new car for less than an elise (assuming you are not putting your time, and workshop for free).

The fiberglass on an elise is nothing more than a big bumper. All the protection in an elise is in the chassis.

The clams are not cheap, but they do just bolt on or off.

juansolo

3,012 posts

277 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
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Thorburn said:
juansolo said:
It really doesn't. The Elise needs to be what the Elise is. It's a brilliant car when it works. What they need to sort out is the build quality of the thing. Do that and I'd have another at the drop of a hat. Which in essence is all that's wrong with Lotus in general.
This smacks of someone who hasn't driven one for quite some time.

In terms of build quality there is nothing wrong with the Toyota engined cars in my opinion. I had a 2010 Elise 1.6 for a day to write a piece on it last year and had absolutely no complaints about the way it was put together.
Had a Toyota engined S that fell apart if you looked at it funny. So often that I couldn't wait to get shot of it. This was after I'd had everything fixed on it, so who knows, it might be alright now...

I think a lot of it does come down to the day they made it. My brother has a 12 year old K-Series S135 from new that has been stunningly reliable. If I could be guaranteed to get a car as good as his I'd have another, as I still consider it the best road driving car I've ever driven.

Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 1st May 07:21

juansolo

3,012 posts

277 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
I think it's the difficulty of entry and exit that makes it unsuitable for a lot of people as an everyday car. What proportion of the population is clinically obese?
I'm a fat bd and other than it being perhaps the most inelegant way to enter/exit a car, once you're in there it's perfectly comfortable. It's worth the minor inconvenience of looking a bit of a t**t getting in and out.

What stops it being an everyday car is the heater not working, or it not letting you out, or the accelerator deciding that it's not going to do anything today, windows jamming, or random lights jumping out of the bodywork in a bid for freedom.

Edited by juansolo on Tuesday 1st May 08:20

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
juansolo said:
What stops it being an everyday car is the heater not working, or it not letting you out, or the accelerator deciding that it's not going to do anything today, windows jamming, or random lights jumping out of the bodywork in a bid for freedom.
hehe To be fair I haven't suffered from any of them (yet),

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
I had the broken clip on the indicator unit leading to it popping out of the clam. I got locked out by a failed central locking unit, which I guess is how people get locked in. I have some small blisters in the paint on the driver's door. None of this is a big deal, IMO, but I guess it depends where your priorities are. If I could get something that drove like the Elise and didn't have those kind of niggles, well, I guesss that would be nice, but I can't.

braddo

10,399 posts

187 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
otolith said:
I had the broken clip on the indicator unit leading to it popping out of the clam. I got locked out by a failed central locking unit, which I guess is how people get locked in. I have some small blisters in the paint on the driver's door. None of this is a big deal, IMO, but I guess it depends where your priorities are. If I could get something that drove like the Elise and didn't have those kind of niggles, well, I guesss that would be nice, but I can't.
Those are all S2 problems so the solution is obviously a S1. wink

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

264 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
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braddo said:
otolith said:
I had the broken clip on the indicator unit leading to it popping out of the clam. I got locked out by a failed central locking unit, which I guess is how people get locked in. I have some small blisters in the paint on the driver's door. None of this is a big deal, IMO, but I guess it depends where your priorities are. If I could get something that drove like the Elise and didn't have those kind of niggles, well, I guesss that would be nice, but I can't.
Those are all S2 problems so the solution is obviously a S1. wink
Or a nice shiny new Elise without seperate front indicators.

chevronb37

6,471 posts

185 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
There was a charming situation which arose at a recent track day at Blyton Park. A gentleman who had only had his S2 Elise a matter of weeks managed to lock himself out of his car with the roof on and the engine running. Cue a panicked call to the AA to break into the car. Meanwhile another Elise came back into the paddock spewing smoke. Gearbox oil leak necessitating the RAC attended. So we ended up with the nation's two largest breakdown companies attending stricken Elises.

Having said that, I doubt either driver would be prepared to swap their cars. For all the Elise/Exige/whatever's faults, they're infectious little cars and the 'worse' they become the more one grows to love them. My 111R was faultless during my two year and 20k miles tenure but I love my Exige even more, despite its questionable reliability and general rubbishness. You can't be too objective about Lotus ownership.

Mr E

21,581 posts

258 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
I went on an elise trackday, and the only causalities were a front indicator making a bid for freedom (me), and a Honda powered exige getting the wrong cog and buzzing the engine.

Every other car was driven hard and appeared to hold up.

Si_man306

456 posts

184 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
Sorry but that car just leaves me cold- which is odd considering it's a lotus.

My S2 exige (purchased mint from main dealer) was packed full of issues- air con+ heater breaking, radiator failing, boot popping open on trackdays, lights popping out, crunchy gearbox, hideously painful (probax) seats, knee pain, tinnitus from the NVH....and whenever it did go wrong the costs to put right were extortionate.

This 'new' model I really don't think takes the game on AT ALL. The V6 exige does slightly but they really need to start thinking about how to attract new customers/ up their game if they're to survive.

At the moment, why would you pay £36k for a car when you could get any of the other models which are essentially the same, immaculate, for ~£20k? I certainly wouldn't be paying extra to have the 'new engine from a prius' when it's a focused sports car!

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

264 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
Si_man306 said:
This 'new' model I really don't think takes the game on AT ALL. The V6 exige does slightly but they really need to start thinking about how to attract new customers/ up their game if they're to survive.
Yes, maybe they should think about a range of entirely new cars, and maybe announce them two years ago.

98elise

26,366 posts

160 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
i have no doubts i could build a kit car that's faster than the elise S for less than 36k

fibreglass, its light but has zero structural integrity in a crash

nothing wrong with the tub, the RnD costs on it are well covered and it lasts well


cars are just very expensive now i guess frown
I'd be very surprised if you could build a similar, entirely new car for less than an elise (assuming you are not putting your time, and workshop for free).

The fiberglass on an elise is nothing more than a big bumper. All the protection in an elise is in the chassis.

The clams are not cheap, but they do just bolt on or off.

braddo

10,399 posts

187 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
Si_man306 said:
At the moment, why would you pay £36k for a car when you could get any of the other models which are essentially the same, immaculate, for ~£20k? I certainly wouldn't be paying extra to have the 'new engine from a prius' when it's a focused sports car!
You are focussing on the UK market where it might be reasonable to say the market is nearly saturated for these cars. That said, some people will always prefer to buy new cars.

I get the impression that UK sales are only a minority for Lotus and their volumes at the moment.

NGK210

2,866 posts

144 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
The above owners' woes obviously begs the question: why the hell can't Lotus consistently build cars that are reliable and don't randomly jettison components?

And let's not have the argument that Lotus can't afford robotised/automated production - before the days of automated production lines, the likes of Mercedes and Porsche built cars that were/still are far more reliable than Lotus's current output.

So what's the problem? Are the components all low-grade tat? Are the cars simply badly designed and engineered? Is the workforce under-paid, poorly treated and, in turn, resentful and, therefore, slapdash?

Damn, it's not as if Lotus's current products are complex and full of 'tricky' high-tech.

98elise

26,366 posts

160 months

Tuesday 1st May 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
hehe To be fair I haven't suffered from any of them (yet),
Check it isn't an mr2 with a body kit
smile