RE: PH Fleet: Jaguar XF Diesel S
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
I still can't work out why people are getting so worked up about dashboard electronics.
Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
If you wanted a car for that you could go out and spend £1000 on a 10 year old hatchback but when you are spending £50k you probably want something a bit more exciting/interesting.Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
JulesB said:
Twincam16 said:
I still can't work out why people are getting so worked up about dashboard electronics.
Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
If you wanted a car for that you could go out and spend £1000 on a 10 year old hatchback but when you are spending £50k you probably want something a bit more exciting/interesting.Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
Twincam16 said:
What's exciting or interesting about Bluetooth?
I didnt mean just the bluetooth, I was referring to the rest of the features on the car.But still if you spend 50k on a car with bluetooth you'd expect the bluetooth to work wouldnt you? Or would you just shrug it off and ignore it?
JulesB said:
Tyre Tread said:
You made a statement and I was simply asking you to enlighten us about the basis for your opinion. Clearly you are entitle dto your opinion but it would be nice to know on what you base it; prejudice, experience or hearsay.
The only reason I used the cars I listed was, as I am sure you are aware, they are listed as your current and previous cars and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were basing your opinion upon a comparison with them.
I'd still like to know why you have given your opinion as you have and upon what it is based.
Just out of interest, do you think TVR's are unreliable?
My opnion is based on having driven them and personal experience. Is that ok with you? The only reason I used the cars I listed was, as I am sure you are aware, they are listed as your current and previous cars and assumed, perhaps wrongly, that you were basing your opinion upon a comparison with them.
I'd still like to know why you have given your opinion as you have and upon what it is based.
Just out of interest, do you think TVR's are unreliable?
Again, TVR's are completely different cars. Im a big fan of them but never had anything to do with them. A friend of mine on the other hand has had several, says he loved them but also describes them as being the most unreliable cars he has owned. So based on that I probably would.
EDIT - Im gonna end this now, just noticed you are a Jag owner and obviously you do like your jag albeit for reasons un-beknown to me but I dont fancy entering a slogging match over it
Edited by JulesB on Thursday 28th June 11:11
JulesB said:
Twincam16 said:
I still can't work out why people are getting so worked up about dashboard electronics.
Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
If you wanted a car for that you could go out and spend £1000 on a 10 year old hatchback but when you are spending £50k you probably want something a bit more exciting/interesting.Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
I can also assure you that the Jag is a wee bit more exciting than a 10 year old hatchback.
JulesB said:
Twincam16 said:
What's exciting or interesting about Bluetooth?
I didnt mean just the bluetooth, I was referring to the rest of the features on the car.But still if you spend 50k on a car with bluetooth you'd expect the bluetooth to work wouldnt you? Or would you just shrug it off and ignore it?
However, I'd buy a luxury car because of its power, performance, ride quality, refinement and cabin materials. I don't associate gadgets with luxury and I always turn my phone off when I'm driving anyway.
Twincam16 said:
I wouldn't use Bluetooth. Like most of these 'must-have' gadgets that have cropped up in the last ten years, I honestly can't think of a single reason why I'd pay money for them in the first place, let alone use them.
However, I'd buy a luxury car because of its power, performance, ride quality, refinement and cabin materials. I don't associate gadgets with luxury and I always turn my phone off when I'm driving anyway.
I dunno, I used to have a lot of fun in my Saxo However, I'd buy a luxury car because of its power, performance, ride quality, refinement and cabin materials. I don't associate gadgets with luxury and I always turn my phone off when I'm driving anyway.
This might be the case for yourself but what you want doesnt mean its what everyone else wants and if these extras were not offered by Jag then they wouldnt not be selling a competitive car.
The facts from the surveys suggest the Germans are the poor relations to the Jaguar.
No wonder this country is in trouble when people have massiveley blinkered opinions that all German product is great and British rubbish. I find that really sad of todays society that people have become so stereotyped ,that when the facts have been presented on the basis of a massive scientific study, people still dont want to believe them.
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ???
The Jaguar is number 1 not by opinion , by fact , be proud or **** off to Germany
No wonder this country is in trouble when people have massiveley blinkered opinions that all German product is great and British rubbish. I find that really sad of todays society that people have become so stereotyped ,that when the facts have been presented on the basis of a massive scientific study, people still dont want to believe them.
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ???
The Jaguar is number 1 not by opinion , by fact , be proud or **** off to Germany
JulesB said:
EDIT - Im gonna end this now, just noticed you are a Jag owner and obviously you do like your jag albeit for reasons un-beknown to me but I dont fancy entering a slogging match over it
If you don't fancy a slogging match then its probably not a good idea to lead in with such gems as:Edited by JulesB on Thursday 28th June 11:11
JulesB said:
cheaply made tat
If they were statistically more unreliable than their peers then the comments could carry weight and would be understandable, but as its to the contrary why do people who have a history of buying what can, by any measure, only be classed as 'cheaply made tat' feel the need to make comments so at odds with a statistical analysis?I don't get it.
.....given the money Jag have invested in their 'Design' and the sales figures of recent, maybe they should be surgically separated lest they pull Land Rover down aswell. How about a 2 for 1 sale, Lotus & JLR? Any takers on that unsual combination? Jag could certainly endure 'adding lightness'!
I find it funny that Chris Harris constantly raves about each every new AMG Mercedes and Porsche and critizies other products, especially british cars, for what I think are minor niggles.
Okay, my daily driver is a MY 10 XF so I am biased, but still..... I mean what are we talking about? Sat Nav? Yes it's s
t, but I rarely need it anyway. Bluetooth works. So what's the problem?
What really matters is great on this car: Steering, ride, handling. This car drives superbly. S-type underneath? Well, it works! Low Budget? Does not feel like it! Engine is also nice, refined and powerful enough (and mine is the lowest powered 3 Litre Diesel). Seats are comfortable, controls are well laid out and the XF has so much style and so many neat little touches.
The last BMWs and Audis I drove had a terrible ride, were super stiff and the iDrive thing I found just ridicilous. But of course BMW and Audis are still essentially good cars. So it's up to you. I just wish some road testers would offer a more balanced view.
Okay, my daily driver is a MY 10 XF so I am biased, but still..... I mean what are we talking about? Sat Nav? Yes it's s
t, but I rarely need it anyway. Bluetooth works. So what's the problem? What really matters is great on this car: Steering, ride, handling. This car drives superbly. S-type underneath? Well, it works! Low Budget? Does not feel like it! Engine is also nice, refined and powerful enough (and mine is the lowest powered 3 Litre Diesel). Seats are comfortable, controls are well laid out and the XF has so much style and so many neat little touches.
The last BMWs and Audis I drove had a terrible ride, were super stiff and the iDrive thing I found just ridicilous. But of course BMW and Audis are still essentially good cars. So it's up to you. I just wish some road testers would offer a more balanced view.
jl34 said:
The facts from the surveys suggest the Germans are the poor relations to the Jaguar.
No wonder this country is in trouble when people have massiveley blinkered opinions that all German product is great and British rubbish. I find that really sad of todays society that people have become so stereotyped ,that when the facts have been presented on the basis of a massive scientific study, people still dont want to believe them.
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ???
The Jaguar is number 1 not by opinion , by fact , be proud or **** off to Germany
Couldn't agree more. Coming from 10 continuous years of BMW ownership and having tested all the current crop of cars on offer I decided on the XF - it was a very easy decision to make in the end and boy am I pleased with it.No wonder this country is in trouble when people have massiveley blinkered opinions that all German product is great and British rubbish. I find that really sad of todays society that people have become so stereotyped ,that when the facts have been presented on the basis of a massive scientific study, people still dont want to believe them.
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ???
The Jaguar is number 1 not by opinion , by fact , be proud or **** off to Germany
Twincam16 said:
I still can't work out why people are getting so worked up about dashboard electronics.
Does the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
well with a username like that you are likely to have far less 8 hour motorway roundtrips in a day than me. So I understand your reductionist bullsDoes the car start, stop, accelerate, decelerate and steer in the direction you want it to? Then it is reliable. Anything else is incidental.
t, it's fine.JulesB said:
Cheaply made tat!
Not again? Quit with the trolling JulesB. Whilst everyone's entitled to an opinion, you clearly like trying to get a rise out of Jag owners.Oh...and for the record:
JulesB said:
My opnion is based on having driven them and personal experience. Is that ok with you?
Seeing the inside of a few cars whilst you're smart repairing them, doesn't count as driving them.Everyone else....stop feeding the troll!
btom said:
There is a certain degree of amusement in his post, especially considering the relative positions of his German Mini and Jaguar.
The JD Power survey you linked to is the US one which has Jag 2nd. This is the UK one - http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/jd-power-reliabili... which has Jag in a different position.
While I'm glad that Jaguar are at the top of that survey, that survey is ownership satisfation, whereas the one I linked to is the outright reliability (faults per 100 cars). The ownership satisfaction survey asked the owner how they like things such as seat comfort, passing power, handling etc. The reliablity is literally asking what has broken on the car.The JD Power survey you linked to is the US one which has Jag 2nd. This is the UK one - http://cars.uk.msn.com/features/jd-power-reliabili... which has Jag in a different position.
It's an interesting comparison, you can see that Volkswagen make a great car, but they are unreliable compared to competitors. But then you can see that Lexus and now Jaguar are making great AND reliable cars. Long may it continue.
ETA: I have no idea why the survey is titled 'reliability' when it clearly says its based on a customer satisfaction survey. Both surveys are dated 2012, the one I posted is the offical reliability score from the JDP website.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Thursday 28th June 23:34
405dogvan said:
Max_Torque said:
For me personally, Electronic Feature Content (hence forth referred to as simply EFC!) ruins many a potential great car.
EFC enables manufacturers to lure buys in with "must have" options, which frankly are little use to any one, and this means they can skimp on the rest of the car (and often they HAVE too, becuase they have blown the dev budget on the EFC!)
etc. etc.
The big problem here - as best as I can tell - is that controlling the whole car from a touchscreen (or a knob, in the case of iDrive) is a fEFC enables manufacturers to lure buys in with "must have" options, which frankly are little use to any one, and this means they can skimp on the rest of the car (and often they HAVE too, becuase they have blown the dev budget on the EFC!)
etc. etc.
kING STUPID IDEA.What used to happen is that cars had separate buttons for stuff - so if you wanted to adjust the aircon you did that, then you pressed the button for the rear blinds, or turned the knob to adjust the volume on the radio - or pressed the button to heat your seat or whatever.
When you put all of that on the same screen - you make it a MASSIVE MASSIVE ballache. People have to hack through menu after menu to find the functions they want. Something which was 2nd nature in a car (once you'd owned it a week) is now a major technical nightmare to achieve - before you could do it anytime, now you need to park-up because it demands your full attention.
It's not impossible rectify but it requires someone to step-up and recognise it's a problem - that they need to invest in people who have the skills to achieve the level of improvement required etc. etc.
Meanwhile, you're paying £50K for a car with an 'UI' which looks like it came from a £17 DVD player.
Having owned my XF S Portfolio since January and similar spec German rivals over the past few years I can unequivocally state that the biggest advantage the Big Cat has over any other car in this class is its soul. So the touch screen isn't a high tech as BMW and the MPG isn't quite what the say (mine is even worse after a fast road remap but @ 315bhp and a 0-60 of <5.5sec I really don't care, if you want MPG buy a 4 cylinder rep-mobile, or a 500 TwinAir!), what you are buying here is a British car, a drivers car that will make you smile whether you are pootling along at 35mph or blasting past the ever surprised and often indignant German clone .
Happy Motoring.
.Happy Motoring.
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