RE: Lotus: Dead weight lifted or dead man walking?
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?
Nearer £50k I think you'll find.
£38K for the standard model
£45k for the S.
Top Gear 2012 Boxster
Much as i hate to say it, but lotus need to start building heavy powerfull bling supercars if they want to sell cars/make money.
The current line up has too many flaws. The elise is too hard to live with every day (hence we also have an MX5) and the evora is too ordinary looking (even a bit ugly).
They need to:
Make the cars look exciting
Make them feel expensive inside
Make the body from something more exotic than fiberglass
Power them with a bespoke engine (ideally cosworth)
They could then double/treble the prices.
They are a good brand with a fantasic engineering branch, and a sucessfull F1 history. All they have to add is something people want to buy!
The current line up has too many flaws. The elise is too hard to live with every day (hence we also have an MX5) and the evora is too ordinary looking (even a bit ugly).
They need to:
Make the cars look exciting
Make them feel expensive inside
Make the body from something more exotic than fiberglass
Power them with a bespoke engine (ideally cosworth)
They could then double/treble the prices.
They are a good brand with a fantasic engineering branch, and a sucessfull F1 history. All they have to add is something people want to buy!
Edited by 98elise on Friday 6th July 13:40
otolith said:
900T-R said:
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
However, Sir, there are certain options we would strongly recommend that you invest in to help retain the value of your new car...Your counterargument will undoubtedly be 'A car with desirable options is an easier sell, Sir.' To which I will answer 'If I'm essentially giving stuff away, I expect people to bite my hand off.'
So please, provide me with an OTR qoute for a Boxster with no extras before I ponder what else I can get for £38K and change my mind...
SWoll said:
Frimley111R said:
900T-R said:
.. Nowadays I feel Lotus' problem is more pricing than anything else - what was the basic (& by the sounds of it, best) Boxster again, £37K?
Nearer £50k I think you'll find.
£38K for the standard model
£45k for the S.
Top Gear 2012 Boxster
As for why Lotus didn't sell many cars. They have an ancient and very niche entry level car and then a massive gap to two over priced and under quality products that appeal to driving purists but few others. Which puts them in the problem they are in now.
What Porsche nails and what so few people posting on the various forums about Lotus' woes is that their cars have a decent image, are practical, well built and also for those who want it which actually isn't many, drive well. And that the order of priorities that the average car buyer really cares about. Don't get that right and why would you sell any cars?
I recall when Lotus used to sell kit cars in the early 70s. It's an image I don't think they have ever really shaken off.
I think that to gain any credibility, they need to ditch the GRP and switch to aluminium and concentrate oon more Porsche/Audi attributes which translate into sales.
I would guess that there is now a huge stock of used Lotus cars to cater to the track types and I regret to say that scameras and modern traffic conditions have largely put paid to zestful enthusiasts.
Much though I like the Elise and even the Evora, I think cars like the Elan, Elan +2S/130 and Europa had more glamour and appeal. No wonder the MX5 ripped off the Elan.
I think that to gain any credibility, they need to ditch the GRP and switch to aluminium and concentrate oon more Porsche/Audi attributes which translate into sales.
I would guess that there is now a huge stock of used Lotus cars to cater to the track types and I regret to say that scameras and modern traffic conditions have largely put paid to zestful enthusiasts.
Much though I like the Elise and even the Evora, I think cars like the Elan, Elan +2S/130 and Europa had more glamour and appeal. No wonder the MX5 ripped off the Elan.
900T-R said:
otolith said:
900T-R said:
Just found it - base price is £37,589.
However, Sir, there are certain options we would strongly recommend that you invest in to help retain the value of your new car...Your counterargument will undoubtedly be 'A car with desirable options is an easier sell, Sir.' To which I will answer 'If I'm essentially giving stuff away, I expect people to bite my hand off.'
So please, provide me with an OTR qoute for a Boxster with no extras before I ponder what else I can get for £38K and change my mind...
LuS1fer said:
I would guess that there is now a huge stock of used Lotus cars to cater to the track types and I regret to say that scameras and modern traffic conditions have largely put paid to zestful enthusiasts.
I don't think that's true - if anything, a car which disguises speed better is harder to enjoy on our roads. There are loads of roads round here where you can enjoy driving a small, raw sportscar without worrying about scameras or traffic or having a 170+mph top speed.My two pennies worth - what appeals to me about the previous Lotus is that they all look "NAUGHTY"! That to me is the essence of the brand. It's built on passion by people who genuinely luv and thrive on this mix of cheekiness and cleverness. I can live with sub-BMW/Audi quality, switches falling off randomly, leaking roof, bone-breaking in and out of the car, and even a Toyota engine (which seriously doesn;t sound THAT good) after all if you want these you won't be looking at a Lotus anyway. But look at the Evora, dull dull dull (I don;t cae how it drives, it's just sooo me-too)! And the idea they were going to produce was it 6, or 7 models, ALL looking exactly the same.........
When I was a lad there were precious few affordable, quick cars you could buy that were a little different from the mainstream. Some of them were the original Lotus 7, frog eye Sprite etc. The youngsters today want to drive Clios and Corsas or whatever.
It's the slightly older buyer who now has money for a "sports car" and the manufactureres know exactly how to pitch their wares and what to charge for extras. I speak as a past owner of a Caterham, Elise and then a couple of TVR's.
A previous comment was absolutely on the button when he said, these cars will be driven at 5/10ths. You can't drive on the road as fast as the car will go so why not have the ace interior, Carlos Fandango wheels etc?
I expect I could drive from A to B as fast as most people in apparently much faster cars in my company sponsored Passat diesel auto.
This is a kind of a track v road era at the moment imo and Lotus and others need to find their niche and quickly. Saab, Artega and dear old TVR. Smollensky was on the right track when he improved quality, warranty etc but the cost to do that in small quantities is not possible without a sales price to match.
It's the slightly older buyer who now has money for a "sports car" and the manufactureres know exactly how to pitch their wares and what to charge for extras. I speak as a past owner of a Caterham, Elise and then a couple of TVR's.
A previous comment was absolutely on the button when he said, these cars will be driven at 5/10ths. You can't drive on the road as fast as the car will go so why not have the ace interior, Carlos Fandango wheels etc?
I expect I could drive from A to B as fast as most people in apparently much faster cars in my company sponsored Passat diesel auto.
This is a kind of a track v road era at the moment imo and Lotus and others need to find their niche and quickly. Saab, Artega and dear old TVR. Smollensky was on the right track when he improved quality, warranty etc but the cost to do that in small quantities is not possible without a sales price to match.
Lotus faces a number of intractable problems. But fundamentally, it doesn't have the scale to be profitable or to match the investment which volume manufacturers are capable of putting into new models.
At the same time, it looks as if it has infrastructure and a market position which don't make it economic to scale back to being a boutique manufacturer a la Morgan.
The decision to go upmarket was and is fatally flawed given that that simply puts you in competition with even more entrenched competitors.
Add the in the market sentiment issue and its very difficult to see how it can survive.
Its the classic stuck in the middle trap - too big to be small and too small to be big.
At the same time, it looks as if it has infrastructure and a market position which don't make it economic to scale back to being a boutique manufacturer a la Morgan.
The decision to go upmarket was and is fatally flawed given that that simply puts you in competition with even more entrenched competitors.
Add the in the market sentiment issue and its very difficult to see how it can survive.
Its the classic stuck in the middle trap - too big to be small and too small to be big.
The market for cars is constantly changing e.g. who would have thought 15 years ago that diesels would virtually take over the luxury barge market? Or that everyone would want (hideous, overweight) SUVs?
To the extent that Lotus has a brand it is associated mainly with light-weight, enthusiast cars like the Elise. Short on quality but great handling. As someone has already posted, the market for such cars is shrinking and there is a ceiling on what people are prepared to pay (can afford to pay). People with more money to spend are generally shopping in a different category or what different things (show-off value, ease of use, etc).
Getting people to change their mind over a brand is not easy. It is possible but taking Lotus from its current brand position to one where it could compete with Porsche or Ferrari would not be cheap or easy, even if they had the funds to actually develop cars that Porsche or Ferrari customers would want to buy.
To the extent that Lotus has a brand it is associated mainly with light-weight, enthusiast cars like the Elise. Short on quality but great handling. As someone has already posted, the market for such cars is shrinking and there is a ceiling on what people are prepared to pay (can afford to pay). People with more money to spend are generally shopping in a different category or what different things (show-off value, ease of use, etc).
Getting people to change their mind over a brand is not easy. It is possible but taking Lotus from its current brand position to one where it could compete with Porsche or Ferrari would not be cheap or easy, even if they had the funds to actually develop cars that Porsche or Ferrari customers would want to buy.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff