RE: PH Carpool: Hawk Stratos
Discussion
ADM06 said:
So a v6 is better when designed to be one in the first place? Aren't most just v8's with two cylinders lopped off?
Nobody will argue over which they'd prefer, if just for the sound alone.
A few answers, V6 aren't inherently well balanced unless a lot of thought goes into the angles, so its perfectly possible to build a pup, were as a straight six or V12 is inherently smooth and requires less design input. Most V6s are 60 degree (with a few exceptions) were as most V8s have a 90 degree V.I dont know of any V6s which started life as V8s apart from the temporary engine shoved in the back of the prototype metro 6R4.Nobody will argue over which they'd prefer, if just for the sound alone.
You can get good power out of a Naturally aspirated V6. The original Ferrari Dino V6 could be would up to produce 300bhp with just 2.5ltrs and 12 valves. The TWR designed V6 in the back of the production Metro 6R4s churned out 410bhp from 3ltrs in full rally tune and Auto delta breathed on/bored out Alfa V6s can churn out over the 300bhp mark.
Have you heard a 6R4 or real Stratos at full chat? Both make a very proper noise.
V8s are great but a good V6 definitely has its place.
ADM06 said:
All of the above examples ate boosted. That hardly counts now does it?
Some of them are boosted examples, competing against boosted examples of other engine formats. Others are not boosted.ADM06 said:
Are there many high revving NA v6 engines about? I can only think of the old NSX but that's it, and it's still behind what BMW have achieved with straight sixes.
Now we're adding "high revving" to the wish list? Here's another Hawk Stratos for sale. This time with a Honda V6 on carbs:
http://lanciastratos.wix.com/replica
http://lanciastratos.wix.com/replica
ADM06 said:
Well, if it's NA how else will it make good power?
I love the stratos. They're a car I'd love to own, but if I were to build one it'd have a v8. You can get a v6 in a golf or some naff Peugeot, kinda ruins it for me.
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).I love the stratos. They're a car I'd love to own, but if I were to build one it'd have a v8. You can get a v6 in a golf or some naff Peugeot, kinda ruins it for me.
Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?ADM06 said:
Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.
If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
Gary C said:
It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.
If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
Sorry about that. I was only talking about an actual Alfa 3.0 V6 in an actual Hawk that I own and drive. Silly me.If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
Blib said:
Gary C said:
It would have to be tje alfa v6 for me, just because ita nearer to the original and it is a replica after all.
If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
Sorry about that. I was only talking about an actual Alfa 3.0 V6 in an actual Hawk that I own and drive. Silly me.If it was a clean sheet car, dont mind. The mazda rotary would be fun in a mid engined car with a reversed g50.
. V8's dont have to be low rev wafters, v6's dont have to be screamers. 4's dont have to be for shopping trollies, flat boxers dont have to sound like they usually do
A Hawk is on the list of the cars I want to build on retiring, and I would have an alfa V6 in it, maybe with some high overlap cams, carbs and lots of banging and popping
Edited by Gary C on Sunday 5th August 10:33
Gary C said:
A Hawk is on the list of the cars I want to build on retiring, and I would have an alfa V6 in it, maybe with some high overlap cams, carbs and lots of banging and popping
Jenvey ITBs are the only option beyond the standard single plenum set up.Edited by Gary C on Sunday 5th August 10:33
Every Alfa V6 Stratos rep. engine is canted, and there are no carb manifolds available. Fitting IDF or DCNF webers would be very difficult.
The only production Alfa V6 with carbs. was a 3.0 S.A. GTV6, which ran 6 individual single downdraught carbs. To fit one of those to a FWD Alfa gearbox, you'd need to have a modified bell housing and one off engine mounts.
There are a good half dozen Alfa V6 Hawks now with Jenveys.
ADM06 said:
Blib said:
I like the V6 in my Hawk. The Alfa 3.0 V6 engine engine puts out roughly the same power as the originals' Dino V6 units. My Maserati has a V8. It's a totally different type of power delivery. It wouldn't have the right characteristics. It would be all wrong, IMO. (This is like deja vu all over again).
So what you're saying is that oodles of effortless low down grunt in a lightweight car doesn't appeal to you?In both 12v and 24v forms, I think you'd find that the Alfa Busso engine provides a fair old shove of low-down grunt, in the 900kg Stratos replica, coupled with a near-manic sound and rate of acceleration as the revs go through 3500 to 7200rpm. A very addictive noise. In keeping with the behaviour of the car.
Could point out that the standard 12v Alfa engine has more power and torque than the original Dino lump in the Lancia Stratos. My 24v engine surprised me at a rolling road recently to show it has 266bhp. And can be driven around in high gears at low speed whilst still providing throttle response if desired.
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John Rutter, aka Rut the Nut
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