RE: Time Attack uncovered
Discussion
I view Time Attack in a different way to most it seems.
I don't really think of it as a race series in the normal sense.
The origins were pretty much as a base for advertising tuning shops and Pro class still pretty much is.
I like it as it is the place to go to see lots of silly lairy cars. It is all about the show to me. Same reason I like the Castle Combe Special GT series. The racing is rubbish but just being able to see those cars together is good for a fan.
As a driver I guess the series can appeal to a few. You have the guys who want to test their driving and prep skills who can have an underpowered car and try to do well or you can have a driver who wants the challenge of trying to tame 800+bhp.
As for the Time Attack car vs Radical debate. Apparently the lap record for a Pro class car at Brands Indy Circuit is Steve Guglielmi Lotus Elise 48.663.
Looking at Radicals for Brands Indy on one day the fastest I saw was 43.7xx with most people being between 44 and 46 sec. These are standard Radicals, can't remember which version.
Similarly at Casle Combe the Radicals can be sub 1.05 where the nearest tin top is as far as I know a 600+bhp Evo at 1.08 and Combe is a circuit where power matters.
I don't really think of it as a race series in the normal sense.
The origins were pretty much as a base for advertising tuning shops and Pro class still pretty much is.
I like it as it is the place to go to see lots of silly lairy cars. It is all about the show to me. Same reason I like the Castle Combe Special GT series. The racing is rubbish but just being able to see those cars together is good for a fan.
As a driver I guess the series can appeal to a few. You have the guys who want to test their driving and prep skills who can have an underpowered car and try to do well or you can have a driver who wants the challenge of trying to tame 800+bhp.
As for the Time Attack car vs Radical debate. Apparently the lap record for a Pro class car at Brands Indy Circuit is Steve Guglielmi Lotus Elise 48.663.
Looking at Radicals for Brands Indy on one day the fastest I saw was 43.7xx with most people being between 44 and 46 sec. These are standard Radicals, can't remember which version.
Similarly at Casle Combe the Radicals can be sub 1.05 where the nearest tin top is as far as I know a 600+bhp Evo at 1.08 and Combe is a circuit where power matters.
As of yet there are relatively few professional drivers in the series, as its roots are in the jap tuning scene as mentioned above. Therefore I'd suggest the door is wide open for some talented drivers to come along & clean up in some non quick machinery even in the top classes.
I love the fact a lot of the cars are home built or built by semi professionals who aren't from a racing background. Effectively its home built groupB cars gone mad so I love a walk round the paddock to whats what.
I was at Brands with the MX5's the day before, the top lap times from them with 130bhp on Kumho road tyres in the wet would have embarrassed far too many of the TA'ers in similar conditions on the Sunday. Mazda's were doing 1.03's in the wet & 56's in the dry. We have also seen similar things at other events where a one armed man in a EVO road car would have won outright at Anglesey if he'd been TA'ing on the Sunfday as opposed to the a general trackday the day before.
In fact I might be having a go myself if you'll let me Glen cough cough
as I'm often out in the pre weekend trackday in my drift car which competes in the EDC which runs alongside the TA series. It has previously posted lap times that would have put me & my car in the top 6 & that was as the car competed the following day in EDC 
I love the fact a lot of the cars are home built or built by semi professionals who aren't from a racing background. Effectively its home built groupB cars gone mad so I love a walk round the paddock to whats what.
I was at Brands with the MX5's the day before, the top lap times from them with 130bhp on Kumho road tyres in the wet would have embarrassed far too many of the TA'ers in similar conditions on the Sunday. Mazda's were doing 1.03's in the wet & 56's in the dry. We have also seen similar things at other events where a one armed man in a EVO road car would have won outright at Anglesey if he'd been TA'ing on the Sunfday as opposed to the a general trackday the day before.
In fact I might be having a go myself if you'll let me Glen cough cough
as I'm often out in the pre weekend trackday in my drift car which competes in the EDC which runs alongside the TA series. It has previously posted lap times that would have put me & my car in the top 6 & that was as the car competed the following day in EDC cptsideways said:
I was at Brands with the MX5's the day before, the top lap times from them with 130bhp on Kumho road tyres in the wet would have embarrassed far too many of the TA'ers in similar conditions on the Sunday. Mazda's were doing 1.03's in the wet & 56's in the dry.
Yup, Time Attack is better suited to the dry and the Club RWD guys would have been down to 52's if it had stayed dry. There is a world of difference between a 56 and a 52 round Brands Indy.280BHP in a mid engined rear wheel drive car isn't easy to put on the road in the wet sadly but we matched your dry times in the wet in the end.
Scottie - NW said:
Time Attack is the worst motorsport I have watched for years.
After watching I feel like i've come away from only seeing a qualifying session. Nobody in the crowd seems to understand what is going on and the only good parts of the day are the guest races they have like Alfa's or Mini's etc.
All in all I find just about every other type of event better to watch so don't go to Time Attack any more.
Fully agree.After watching I feel like i've come away from only seeing a qualifying session. Nobody in the crowd seems to understand what is going on and the only good parts of the day are the guest races they have like Alfa's or Mini's etc.
All in all I find just about every other type of event better to watch so don't go to Time Attack any more.
cptsideways said:
In fact I might be having a go myself if you'll let me Glen cough cough as I'm often out in the pre weekend trackday in my drift car which competes in the EDC which runs alongside the TA series. It has previously posted lap times that would have put me & my car in the top 6 & that was as the car competed the following day in EDC
Your car is a monster though, Declan as I'm often out in the pre weekend trackday in my drift car which competes in the EDC which runs alongside the TA series. It has previously posted lap times that would have put me & my car in the top 6 & that was as the car competed the following day in EDC 
Also
Startline Al, hope you are well. It's Ben who used to stand on the startline with you a few years ago. 
I'm tempted to go watch TA, as it's been so long. Plus I'll get to meet cptsideways again and get all nostalgic about drifting while watching EDC.
Round 4 Anglesey International Saturday 11th Aug
Round 5 Anglesey Coastal Circuit 12th August
Round 6 Snetterton 300 22nd September
Round 7 Snetterton 200 23rd September
Round 4 Anglesey International Saturday 11th Aug
Round 5 Anglesey Coastal Circuit 12th August
Round 6 Snetterton 300 22nd September
Round 7 Snetterton 200 23rd September
TA round 1 Cadwell..
http://youtu.be/AWJDfVo3E1Q
TA round 2 Knockhill..
http://youtu.be/8aVLBo2M1_E
TA round 3 Brands Hatch.. http://youtu.be/hopcdbI3_u8
http://youtu.be/AWJDfVo3E1Q
TA round 2 Knockhill..
http://youtu.be/8aVLBo2M1_E
TA round 3 Brands Hatch.. http://youtu.be/hopcdbI3_u8
Edited by Startline Al on Thursday 26th July 11:41
jellison said:
This glorified trackday stuff just takes potential circuit time from proper racing series.
Those crazy power 4wd Turbo things look so planted and easy to drive as to be make the whole thing totally pointless. Make em 2wd then you see if anyone could drive!
QuiteThose crazy power 4wd Turbo things look so planted and easy to drive as to be make the whole thing totally pointless. Make em 2wd then you see if anyone could drive!
I remember a few years ago Paul White turning up in his normally aspirated MGB V8 (proper race car and proper driver) and absoutely wiping the floor with the 4WD turbo opposition. They couldn't believe a 40 year old car could be so quick. Paul subsequently went onto Britcar and now races a Mosler
jellison said:
This glorified trackday stuff just takes potential circuit time from proper racing series.
Those crazy power 4wd Turbo things look so planted and easy to drive as to be make the whole thing totally pointless. Make em 2wd then you see if anyone could drive!
As someone who won the Pro class championship as a driver and engineer, and was part of the team that took the UK winning car to compete in Japan at Tsukuba, i have to disagree with you on this one Jelly. Those crazy power 4wd Turbo things look so planted and easy to drive as to be make the whole thing totally pointless. Make em 2wd then you see if anyone could drive!
TA lost it's way last year, the tyre situation was a joke, it's now back on track and good to see the interest is returning.
I did a little test at Mallory with our 2007 championship winning car at the start of 2008, going round the outside of T70's and leaving them for dead down the back straight surprised a few that day.
I'm competing in the MLR/22B Sprint series this year, on course to win the S2 class after two wins and a 2nd, it's great fun on a very limited budget, it's a very different type of event to TA though.
Dont knock driving a powerful AWD car until you've tried it, it's quite a challenge and enormous fun.
Hi John.I see the poiny of Big Power Rally AWD Weapons but on targmac they just seem to have way to much grip and when they are sliding WAY too easy for people of average talent to look like driving Gods. I know that are Nuts fast, that is not my point. On Tarmac I just don't get them. I like to seem driver having to really earn their lap times but more important;y fighting for position on track.
I get where you are coming from, but we'll have to differ on this one. Don't even get me started on Drifting
Whilst I'm happy to decry the merits of TA I cant agree with that one either tbh.
At the first time attack at Knockhill, there were pro-drivers hired to drive some of the top end cars. One that springs to mind was Litchfield getting a British GT driver in to pilot their Type25 Impreza. At that round there wasnt a lot of cars and it was still the infancy of the formula where drivers went out on a warm up lap, set their time then pitted. No super battle. The rate of attrition was high so they had to introduce the super battle. On this occasion, Chris Doc, Chris Whyte and Andy Gallacher were up with their Escort Cosworth race cars. All of those guys can pedal and they got bored and dragged the lit imports driver in to having a full on race, much to the commentator's dismay iirc They could seriously drive and anyone in an MGB GT wouldnt see what way they went.
Moving on a few years, you had Rory Butcher in the NR Autosport Evo racing, this was before the tyre situation wrecked things. Now, I dont see the pro drivers any more and looking at datalogs from this year at Knockhill, there was a 900hp Evo with "full aero" and Carrera Cup spec slicks but their corner speeds were lower than I run in my Mini, which is set up to wag its tail like an over excited labradoodle puppy.
Hopefully pro drivers will re-enter the series to make the most of the cars that are there.
At the first time attack at Knockhill, there were pro-drivers hired to drive some of the top end cars. One that springs to mind was Litchfield getting a British GT driver in to pilot their Type25 Impreza. At that round there wasnt a lot of cars and it was still the infancy of the formula where drivers went out on a warm up lap, set their time then pitted. No super battle. The rate of attrition was high so they had to introduce the super battle. On this occasion, Chris Doc, Chris Whyte and Andy Gallacher were up with their Escort Cosworth race cars. All of those guys can pedal and they got bored and dragged the lit imports driver in to having a full on race, much to the commentator's dismay iirc
They could seriously drive and anyone in an MGB GT wouldnt see what way they went.Moving on a few years, you had Rory Butcher in the NR Autosport Evo racing, this was before the tyre situation wrecked things. Now, I dont see the pro drivers any more and looking at datalogs from this year at Knockhill, there was a 900hp Evo with "full aero" and Carrera Cup spec slicks but their corner speeds were lower than I run in my Mini, which is set up to wag its tail like an over excited labradoodle puppy.
Hopefully pro drivers will re-enter the series to make the most of the cars that are there.
SirSamuelBuca said:
Startline Al said:
thats bloody quickjohnfelstead said:
Have you ever driven a 700BHP+ AWD car on road tyres on track trying to set a fast time Jelly? I think you would find it a lot of fun, especially when you set the diffs up to give a RWD torque bias.
No, not had the oppurtunity. I'm sure it would be a giggle, but hardly the same as driving a full RWD with anything over 400. Now if they looked like they were on the ragged edge like a top rally cross car, that would work for me.The vids I have seen, just make it look like it is a walk in the park (a bit like a Ph'er that does one of the Spa races one handed - i.e. not driving anywhere need hard enough (can win by miles with one hand such is the car advantage, so why try harder)!
Now if TA was just 2WD (front or rear). Oh and if they had a few cars scrapping for the same piece of tarmac - oh no that would be racing.
I get board of Qualifying! If you ain't racing for places / corners I just don't see the point. Don't see the point of trackdays either (unless to knock the bigs out of a new car).
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I get board of Qualifying! If you ain't racing for places / corners I just don't see the point. Don't see the point of trackdays either (unless to knock the bigs out of a new car).
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Have to agree with you, and as for drifting,jeez!
I am not convinced that any of these are cheaper than the entry level racing run by the 750MC.
OK, the power figures will not win the urinal bragging contest, but it is racing against other cars. Just go and see the Locost and 750 Formula cars racing, great fun!
marsdalebear said:
I am not convinced that any of these are cheaper than the entry level racing run by the 750MC.
OK, the power figures will not win the urinal bragging contest, but it is racing against other cars. Just go and see the Locost and 750 Formula cars racing, great fun!
I like the challenge and the tactics and the relative speed of my little car is addictive.
Time Attack and racing are two different disciplines and are not really comparable; you want to watch racing, go to a BRSCC, 750MC or BARC meeting, plenty do. Time Attack however has great gate attendance and regularly attracts spectators in numbers most club meets can only dream of so it must be doing something right.
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