RE: Chris Harris video: BAC Mono
Discussion
Fantastic peace of kit and at £80k I'd say about right.
There's loads of people that use Ferrari's to commute solo into central London costing 2-3 times as much.
Just imagine sitting at the lights in one of these. Crash Helmet and dark visor. Not everyday but as an occasional treat to break up the monotony of commuting. Then as you get further out of town and come across your favorite roundabouts... Yeeeehhaaaa.
For the wealthy, and there's plenty of em, it's a bargain in my book for the uniqueness if nothing else. A Fezza 599 or a California and a BAC ? I'd go with the latter everyday
Previous posters have mentioned ex F1 cars for a similar price but I'd still have the BAC.
An F1 car needs some pro mechanics just to get it moving
You can't take an F1 car down the pub for a pose
I haven't got the talent to exploit an F1 car, not am I ever likely too but I reckon I could give this a bit of a spank
There's loads of people that use Ferrari's to commute solo into central London costing 2-3 times as much.
Just imagine sitting at the lights in one of these. Crash Helmet and dark visor. Not everyday but as an occasional treat to break up the monotony of commuting. Then as you get further out of town and come across your favorite roundabouts... Yeeeehhaaaa.
For the wealthy, and there's plenty of em, it's a bargain in my book for the uniqueness if nothing else. A Fezza 599 or a California and a BAC ? I'd go with the latter everyday
Previous posters have mentioned ex F1 cars for a similar price but I'd still have the BAC.
An F1 car needs some pro mechanics just to get it moving
You can't take an F1 car down the pub for a pose
I haven't got the talent to exploit an F1 car, not am I ever likely too but I reckon I could give this a bit of a spank
Edited by Harry H on Thursday 2nd August 13:10
Whether we would each buy one or not, I think it's clear that we're all glad it exists... now, what I really hope is that the buyers of this car (whoever they are), actually take them out and we get to see them being used as intended.
At 80K, I do have a feeling that many of these will become trinkets in car collections and rarely see the light of day.... time will tell, I really hope I'm wrong there.
At 80K, I do have a feeling that many of these will become trinkets in car collections and rarely see the light of day.... time will tell, I really hope I'm wrong there.
Good review, i think the video and these videos say it all really,
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/bac-mono-video-...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkuL0jHEPA
As for the price, its worth that just to hang it on the wall as Art.
66k + VAT for a team of truly talented people to dedicate part of their lives to designing and making this a reality, to run a factory and all the hassle and sacrifices that goes with it, to make an aftertax profit on a small number of cars every year. This cars not expensive at all, its a bargain! Imagine if Ferrari made this itd be a fortune and possibly not as good. Definatley not as good looking, if their current cars are anything to go by.
Must be like being in a Tron film drivng this, no wonder they are selling well.
As for the competition.. what competition? In my opinion:
Ariel atom looks like something off scrapheap challenge, sure its a good car but it aint a looker.
KTM too heavy and looks like a carboard box thats been sat on.
Caterham, shoebox with an engine in the front, automotive equivalent of a Roman chariot and looks like one too.
Caparo deathtrap that breaks down, no thanks.
F1 car, running a team and rebuilding engines, for an old track only car no thanks.
Just my opinions though, variety is the spice of life, for as long as we have choice to make us all happy its all good.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/bac-mono-video-...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkuL0jHEPA
As for the price, its worth that just to hang it on the wall as Art.
66k + VAT for a team of truly talented people to dedicate part of their lives to designing and making this a reality, to run a factory and all the hassle and sacrifices that goes with it, to make an aftertax profit on a small number of cars every year. This cars not expensive at all, its a bargain! Imagine if Ferrari made this itd be a fortune and possibly not as good. Definatley not as good looking, if their current cars are anything to go by.
Must be like being in a Tron film drivng this, no wonder they are selling well.
As for the competition.. what competition? In my opinion:
Ariel atom looks like something off scrapheap challenge, sure its a good car but it aint a looker.
KTM too heavy and looks like a carboard box thats been sat on.
Caterham, shoebox with an engine in the front, automotive equivalent of a Roman chariot and looks like one too.
Caparo deathtrap that breaks down, no thanks.
F1 car, running a team and rebuilding engines, for an old track only car no thanks.
Just my opinions though, variety is the spice of life, for as long as we have choice to make us all happy its all good.
£80,000, 170MPH and 0-60 in 2.8,,, and a limited run of cars. (35)
God damn, that is costly but you get the right bits for your cash I suppose.
Sachs dampers in a pushrod setup, Hewland, APRacing, CF body, FIA grade steel frame,,,
They say,,, "The BAC MONO is aimed at drivers who want an exhilarating purist driving tool,"
Surely it beats wasting £80,000 on a compromised fatty that doesnt do anything brilliantly and is consistently mediocre at everything.
God damn, that is costly but you get the right bits for your cash I suppose.
Sachs dampers in a pushrod setup, Hewland, APRacing, CF body, FIA grade steel frame,,,
They say,,, "The BAC MONO is aimed at drivers who want an exhilarating purist driving tool,"
Surely it beats wasting £80,000 on a compromised fatty that doesnt do anything brilliantly and is consistently mediocre at everything.
Pistonwot said:
£80,000, 170MPH and 0-60 in 2.8,,, and a limited run of cars. (35)
God damn, that is costly but you get the right bits for your cash I suppose.
Sachs dampers in a pushrod setup, Hewland, APRacing, CF body, FIA grade steel frame,,,
They say,,, "The BAC MONO is aimed at drivers who want an exhilarating purist driving tool,"
Surely it beats wasting £80,000 on a compromised fatty that doesnt do anything brilliantly and is consistently mediocre at everything.
Don't forget the ford fiesta engine, ooh the giddy heights...God damn, that is costly but you get the right bits for your cash I suppose.
Sachs dampers in a pushrod setup, Hewland, APRacing, CF body, FIA grade steel frame,,,
They say,,, "The BAC MONO is aimed at drivers who want an exhilarating purist driving tool,"
Surely it beats wasting £80,000 on a compromised fatty that doesnt do anything brilliantly and is consistently mediocre at everything.
otolith said:
Greg_D said:
Don't forget the ford fiesta engine, ooh the giddy heights...
Must get me one of those Fiestas with the 280bhp dry sumped 2.3l Cosworth developed engine. How much did you say they cost?eta: link
http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/engin...
Edited by Greg_D on Thursday 2nd August 15:56
otolith said:
Questions from me would be;
Is there a larger (untapped) market for this sort of toy at 50k than there is at 80k? Would a cheaper but not as good version be competitive at a lower price point? Would a cheaper version have cost any less to develop, and would it be able to carry as much margin?
I like the fact that this appears to me to be a singular vision which has been built and then put on sale, rather than a marketing driven exercise. They say they have orders, so perhaps sometimes if you build it they will come.
In terms of performance, I think that if what you really want to do is to "win" at track days and drive home afterwards, a 70k Radical SR3 SL is what you want - or if you aren't bothered about driving home afterwards, an 80k Caterham SP/300.R. Simply because they have meaningful aero. The specification of the BAC is fairly close to those two, apart from the aero - I would imagine that not trying to compete in that high downforce market is really to do with road usability and ground clearance.
Steve Sutcliffe's video review:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/bac-mono-video-...
Atoms seem to be doing pretty well at that price point and technical level, you seem to dismiss 30k as not a lot of money, am i assuming you consider those who have 50k to spend can easily find another 30? I would love to answer your questions re development costs and margins, but i am guessing you dont know how much the development cost was and what their margin is as much as me.Is there a larger (untapped) market for this sort of toy at 50k than there is at 80k? Would a cheaper but not as good version be competitive at a lower price point? Would a cheaper version have cost any less to develop, and would it be able to carry as much margin?
I like the fact that this appears to me to be a singular vision which has been built and then put on sale, rather than a marketing driven exercise. They say they have orders, so perhaps sometimes if you build it they will come.
In terms of performance, I think that if what you really want to do is to "win" at track days and drive home afterwards, a 70k Radical SR3 SL is what you want - or if you aren't bothered about driving home afterwards, an 80k Caterham SP/300.R. Simply because they have meaningful aero. The specification of the BAC is fairly close to those two, apart from the aero - I would imagine that not trying to compete in that high downforce market is really to do with road usability and ground clearance.
Steve Sutcliffe's video review:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/bac-mono-video-...
Of course if as you put it, want to win at track days, there are better choices, but lets face it, i would seriously doubt buyers will be making a purchase for road work, its a track focussed car, or should i say toy. So, will be it be quicker than an Atom, or to word it better for you, any better a driving experience or fun, although really most people buying this type of car will be looking for outright pace!
RX7 said:
Atoms seem to be doing pretty well at that price point and technical level
Yes, they are. High end Caterhams too. Well established competition in that market, no doubt at all. Maybe an idea to find a different market with less competition? Perhaps aim at those people with a bigger budget who want something a bit different?RX7 said:
you seem to dismiss 30k as not a lot of money, am i assuming you consider those who have 50k to spend can easily find another 30?
Not at all. What I'm saying is that the people with a 50k budget already have some pretty good options to choose from.RX7 said:
Of course if as you put it, want to win at track days, there are better choices, but lets face it, i would seriously doubt buyers will be making a purchase for road work, its a track focussed car, or should i say toy. So, will be it be quicker than an Atom, or to word it better for you, any better a driving experience or fun, although really most people buying this type of car will be looking for outright pace!
I would suggest that the people looking for maximum absolute pace for their money for track use only are looking at the wrong car if they buy this one.otolith said:
RX7 said:
Atoms seem to be doing pretty well at that price point and technical level
Yes, they are. High end Caterhams too. Well established competition in that market, no doubt at all. Maybe an idea to find a different market with less competition? Perhaps aim at those people with a bigger budget who want something a bit different?RX7 said:
you seem to dismiss 30k as not a lot of money, am i assuming you consider those who have 50k to spend can easily find another 30?
Not at all. What I'm saying is that the people with a 50k budget already have some pretty good options to choose from.RX7 said:
Of course if as you put it, want to win at track days, there are better choices, but lets face it, i would seriously doubt buyers will be making a purchase for road work, its a track focussed car, or should i say toy. So, will be it be quicker than an Atom, or to word it better for you, any better a driving experience or fun, although really most people buying this type of car will be looking for outright pace!
I would suggest that the people looking for maximum absolute pace for their money for track use only are looking at the wrong car if they buy this one.I am not trying to knock it, per say, i think its gorgeous, just cant get my head around why its 30k more than very similar vehicles in terms of performance, handling and fun levels
RX7 said:
I am not trying to knock it, per say, i think its gorgeous, just cant get my head around why its 30k more than very similar vehicles in terms of performance, handling and fun levels
Expensive to build, low volumes to spread the development budget over. May as well wonder why a bespoke suit costs more than an off-the-peg one. People will spend this sort of money on mass produced cars like 911s and M-cars - that looks like worse value for money to me!AER said:
I'm certain they're not trying to compete with Ford Fiestas or even Ariel Atoms for that matter. To complain that they're not trying hard enough to is frankly pointless.
It doesn't matter what they think they're competing with - reality is they ARE competing with Atoms, Caterhams, Radicals, XBows and the like.It's a rich man's toy market where people move from one indulgent purchase to the next - little logic or common-sense is used, it's all about the next 'shiny thing' and the fit and finish on the Mono is really lovely I'm sure - but the price is wilting.
It remains to be seen if they remain valuable or become deadweights to their owners - the LCC Rocket was rare enough to hold it's value and - indeed - even increase it - so who knows.
Could I have one on raw carbon without the interior trimmings etc. for £50K - and if so, wouldn't I?
Well i dont know about sport on TV but the BAC Mono makes me proud to be british. I have gone from owning a Morgan to owning a Caterham to now owning an Atom. It is like evolution of a species. Then there is the Mono, the next step on the ladder of evolution and pricing. What a car. Any of the cars mentioned can be made to go fast on a track and all good cars but i love the arty look of the Atom and hope some day i can afford a Mono (to go with the Atom perhaps) As for the price, it a lot but a lot of spec. I think people are forgeting the cost and spec of the Atom 500. Much the same car with a lot better spec but will cost you £150000.
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