RE: Jaguar XJ220 - the inside story

[AAGR]

SteveO220 said:

AAGR said:

Apologies for being a bit late in adding to this debate .... but as someone who was 'at the sharp end' when the XJ220 was being designed, I can add/define some details :

• As far as I know, the original 1988 'Motor Show' car (complete wih V12 engine and four-wheel-drive) had not turned a wheel when it went on display.

• Not only that, but I hear (but cannot confirm) that it has never been driven, under its own power, ever since then.

• When TWR proposed that a 'production version' was developed, they soon discovered the truth about the project car, which was soon condemned as being too large, too heavy, unnecessarily complex, and would have taken three or four years to develop.

• Tom Walkinshaw hired Mike Moreton as project manager - and since Mike had just completed the same job on Ford's Group B RS200 he was ideally suited for it. Mike was just one of a tiny team which concluded that a smaller, simpler but equally powerful car (as eventually launched) would do the job.

• As I was (i) lucky enough to be running an RS200 road car at the time, and (ii) since Mike Moreton was a long-term chum, maybe it was obvious that 'my' RS200 should be loaned to TWR for some time while they re-studied the problems of small-scale production of such cars.

• When the decision was made to produce 350 production XJ220s, it was ALWAYS on the base of using the much-developed V6 engine, allied to rear-wheel-drive, in a much smaller/lighter monocoque. When the dealer chain, and by definition the potential customers, were told that the car was to be produced, it was ALWAYS made very clear that it would be in V6/RWD format. There was never any question of customers being cheated out of the car which they thought they had ordered. The orders which were solicited always made the V6/RWD format totally clear.

• Finally, I should make it clear that the V6 engine was a directly productionised version of that engine which had been produced by TWR for its XJR10 race cars. TWR had bought the rights for the MG Metro 6R4 engine from Austin-Rover.

• There was absolutely no link with the GM/Rover V8 engine - this confusion arising because the very first MG 6R4 prototype car used a cut-and-shut version of that engine. The definitive 6R4 engine had used a bottom end mostly engineered by David Wood, but Cosworth was responsible for the layout and detailing of the cylinder heads, porting, camshaft design, heads/valve gear/etc - but were never allowed to say so because of a confidentality agreement (whoops, what have I just said ....?).

• The XJ220 which went on sale was totally engineered by TWR (or JaguarSport, as that subsidiary was known for a time) at the factory at Bloxham, under Mike Moreton's direction. As far as I know, the mainstream Jaguar organisation, and certainly not the 'Saturday Club' enthusiasts, were never involved.

• The deposit, by the way, was not £50,000, but £50,000 + VAT. I know this because I was drafted in to Bloxham for the hectic weeks before Christmas 1989 when the order book opened up, and helped the sales/engineering team to deal with the rush of customers.

Many thanks for the contribution. It is good to hear from people who were involved in the project -putting right many of the false rumours that have surrounded the car for a long time (and depressed values as a result). Could you cast any light on the engine? I have always thought that the design derived directly from the 6R4, though someone recently told me that this is not entirely correct, that TWR developed the engine separately and bought the 6R4 rights just to tidy up the IP.

You are quite correct. The 6R4 engine was rendered redundant in 1986 when Group B rallying was killed off, Austin-Rover washed their hands of that project in 1987 (which was still normally aspirated), and shortly afterwards TWR bought the rights, etc, from the A-R company. TWR then spent time turbocharging the engine, changing it in many ways (as you do ....) then using it in the XJR10, on which I am sure you are more expert than I am. As far as I am aware, TWR did not have any turbocharged engine of their own under development before they bought the 6R4 rights, and it was they, rather than A-R or indeed Cosworth, who turbocharged the 6R4 between 1987 and 1989.

AAGR

[dinkel]

2 x 6R4 > V12

Ouch if that was only a possibility . . .

[dave escos]

RufMD said:

AAGR, fantastic info thanks !


Do you know who TWR used for their carbon fiber panel needs ? Would be great to find out who manufactured the original CF panels for the xj220 S. If anyone knows of any ex-twr employees or engineers please forward details...part of the passion is learning the story behind the cars. Fascinating to read the ahem Cosworth link. Zytec did the engine management software/ECU I've learned...a '93 spec toshiba laptop is needed to run the codes in DOS

if anyone into racing Jags is interested i can inform them that the best man Tom Walkinshaw had working for him at TWR is a fella called Jeff Wilson who helped TWR win Lemans and loads more inc the Touring cars Twr raced, theres many people in the motorsport game who you don't ever get to hear about behind the scenes but Jeff is the best person to ask about anything TWR or XJ220 and you can find him at Don Laws in Stoke duck.......

[A4069]

i just stumbled upon this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU04lom8ocg

SteveO220 said:

The car was development-driven by Andy Wallace, John Nielsen (both Le Mans winners) and of course TW himself, amongst others - racing drivers who naturally preferred the progressive feel of non-servo brakes. So that's what the car was originally delivered with. Trouble is, that's not too useful when cold and on most drives, of course they stay cold. They also need a man-sized shove. Most cars have now had a servo fitted as well as bigger disks, delivering tooth-loosening deceleration even when cold.

[*Al*]

Saw one in LeMans a few years back with the reg XJ220, awesome.

[f1ten]

Wow what a collection! No f50!?

RufMD said:

What a timely story ! I just acquired one of the 5 XJ220 "S" models, #220779, Orange with black wheels, came of the transporter last night. As most of your know, Jaguar Sport was a collaboration between Tom Walkinshaw's TWR and Jaguar, and led to many racing success in the 80's and 90's as well as production of the XJ220 at Bloxham. When Jaguar decided to race the XJ220 at LeMans in the GT category, TWR built 3 race versions, the XJ220 "C". One of these won the GT category at LeMans in 1994 with coulthard at the wheel....only to be disqualified on a technicality that was proven incorrect but upheld due to a "nontimely appeal". In order to homologate this race car, TWR built 5 (or six if you count a Tom Walkinshaw special) "S" versions.

The only panels an "S" version shares with the original car are the doors, the rest is replaced with lightweight CF panels. The heavy seats were removed and replaced with leather clad racing buckets. Finally the engine was massaged to 680hp, up from the original 542hp. All in all, almost 700lbs were shaved off the original weight and the "S" version weighs in at 2376lbs. Add 680hp to that weight and the performance quotes of 3.3 secs to 60mph and a top end of 228mph seem plausible

1. 220779 has 2900kms on the clock, has had its fuel cell and clutch replaced and recent gasket service. Going through it quite carefully at the moment but a full driving review will follow. Ive been trying to land one for yonks so to finally acquire one is really exciting.

Edited by RufMD on Thursday 9th August 08:00

Edited by RufMD on Thursday 9th August 08:11

[RESSE]

1990 220 Development prototype for sale on the 17th of April via H&H's Auction.

Estimate £150,000 - £180,000

[onyx39]

About a year before the 220 came out, a friend and I blagged some tickets to a Vauxhall event at Millbrook.
We were told on the gate to surrender any cameras we had (this was before the days of camera phones) and that we might possibly see some "pre production" vehicles.
I remember seeing a SAAB that I did not recognise before we got out on the speedbowl, but when I finally got out (I was driving a Senator 3.0 24v at about a ton), and what I later found out when he came around again, was overtaken by a 220.... Could not see what It was the first time, so god knows how fast he was going!

[chevronb37]

RufMD said:

What a timely story ! I just acquired one of the 5 XJ220 "S" models, #220779, Orange with black wheels, came of the transporter last night. As most of your know, Jaguar Sport was a collaboration between Tom Walkinshaw's TWR and Jaguar, and led to many racing success in the 80's and 90's as well as production of the XJ220 at Bloxham. When Jaguar decided to race the XJ220 at LeMans in the GT category, TWR built 3 race versions, the XJ220 "C". One of these won the GT category at LeMans in 1994 with coulthard at the wheel....only to be disqualified on a technicality that was proven incorrect but upheld due to a "nontimely appeal". In order to homologate this race car, TWR built 5 (or six if you count a Tom Walkinshaw special) "S" versions.

The only panels an "S" version shares with the original car are the doors, the rest is replaced with lightweight CF panels. The heavy seats were removed and replaced with leather clad racing buckets. Finally the engine was massaged to 680hp, up from the original 542hp. All in all, almost 700lbs were shaved off the original weight and the "S" version weighs in at 2376lbs. Add 680hp to that weight and the performance quotes of 3.3 secs to 60mph and a top end of 228mph seem plausible

1. 220779 has 2900kms on the clock, has had its fuel cell and clutch replaced and recent gasket service. Going through it quite carefully at the moment but a full driving review will follow. Ive been trying to land one for yonks so to finally acquire one is really exciting.

Edited by RufMD on Thursday 9th August 08:00

Edited by RufMD on Thursday 9th August 08:11

Utterly, utterly awesome car and car collection. Tiny comment though - my recollection is that the Le Mans disqualification was in 1993. I believe the 1994 GT1 class winner was actually the Dauer 962 which took the overall win.

[f1ten]

That development car is a real collector's piece although the panels maybe not fitted perfectly?

[dinkel]

RESSE said:

1990 220 Development prototype for sale on the 17th of April via H&H's Auction.

Estimate £150,000 - £180,000

How strangely attractive is that?

[coppice]

A Marmite car I think - I have seen several over the years on road and track and whilst the view from the front is undeniably attractive the whole car is grotesquely long to my eyes. It would be redeemed if it sounded better (like a 6R4 would be good). But they sound like bags of spanners to me. I will keep my F40 thanks. (Tipo Burago 1/12 scale sadly ). The XJR 15 seemed to be a far prettier car(have never seen one in flesh however) and it did have the merit of a 'proper' engine.

But fantastic that owners of the XJ 220 are so keen on preserving them and it is always an event to see one .

[morgrp]

[redacted]

[LongLiveTazio]

Noted that Classic Cars this month in their 'we're amazing' anniversary issue have managed to repeat the rubbish about orders taken on the show car. I think plenty of people, here and elsewhere, have done their fair bit to stop this cropping up - it still amazes me how lazy some journalists are with fact checking in regards to disparaging items.

[AAGR]

OK : To repeat and make it absolutely clear.

a) No deposits were ever taken, or solicited, for the 4WD/V12 original.

b) When the RWD/V6 road car was revealed - it was on a Thursday in 1989, the Order book opened on the Friday AM, at Bloxham. I was present on that day, helping to process the £50,000 + VAT Bankers' Drafts which flooded in.

c) The brochures for the road car were available in advance of that moment, making the RWD/V6 layout absolutely clear.

d) I was hired, by Jaguar Sport, to stay on to help handle technical queries for the next few weeks, in the run up to Christmas, and I do not recall a single complaint coming in on the lines of 'We Wuz Robbed ....'

e) No-one was mis-led, and no-one 'Wuz Robbed' ....

[justice.]

SteveO220 said:

AAGR said:

Apologies for being a bit late in adding to this debate .... but as someone who was 'at the sharp end' when the XJ220 was being designed, I can add/define some details :

• As far as I know, the original 1988 'Motor Show' car (complete wih V12 engine and four-wheel-drive) had not turned a wheel when it went on display.

• Not only that, but I hear (but cannot confirm) that it has never been driven, under its own power, ever since then.

• When TWR proposed that a 'production version' was developed, they soon discovered the truth about the project car, which was soon condemned as being too large, too heavy, unnecessarily complex, and would have taken three or four years to develop.

• Tom Walkinshaw hired Mike Moreton as project manager - and since Mike had just completed the same job on Ford's Group B RS200 he was ideally suited for it. Mike was just one of a tiny team which concluded that a smaller, simpler but equally powerful car (as eventually launched) would do the job.

• As I was (i) lucky enough to be running an RS200 road car at the time, and (ii) since Mike Moreton was a long-term chum, maybe it was obvious that 'my' RS200 should be loaned to TWR for some time while they re-studied the problems of small-scale production of such cars.

• When the decision was made to produce 350 production XJ220s, it was ALWAYS on the base of using the much-developed V6 engine, allied to rear-wheel-drive, in a much smaller/lighter monocoque. When the dealer chain, and by definition the potential customers, were told that the car was to be produced, it was ALWAYS made very clear that it would be in V6/RWD format. There was never any question of customers being cheated out of the car which they thought they had ordered. The orders which were solicited always made the V6/RWD format totally clear.

• Finally, I should make it clear that the V6 engine was a directly productionised version of that engine which had been produced by TWR for its XJR10 race cars. TWR had bought the rights for the MG Metro 6R4 engine from Austin-Rover.

• There was absolutely no link with the GM/Rover V8 engine - this confusion arising because the very first MG 6R4 prototype car used a cut-and-shut version of that engine. The definitive 6R4 engine had used a bottom end mostly engineered by David Wood, but Cosworth was responsible for the layout and detailing of the cylinder heads, porting, camshaft design, heads/valve gear/etc - but were never allowed to say so because of a confidentality agreement (whoops, what have I just said ....?).

• The XJ220 which went on sale was totally engineered by TWR (or JaguarSport, as that subsidiary was known for a time) at the factory at Bloxham, under Mike Moreton's direction. As far as I know, the mainstream Jaguar organisation, and certainly not the 'Saturday Club' enthusiasts, were never involved.

• The deposit, by the way, was not £50,000, but £50,000 + VAT. I know this because I was drafted in to Bloxham for the hectic weeks before Christmas 1989 when the order book opened up, and helped the sales/engineering team to deal with the rush of customers.

Many thanks for the contribution. It is good to hear from people who were involved in the project -putting right many of the false rumours that have surrounded the car for a long time (and depressed values as a result). Could you cast any light on the engine? I have always thought that the design derived directly from the 6R4, though someone recently told me that this is not entirely correct, that TWR developed the engine separately and bought the 6R4 rights just to tidy up the IP.

How’s this for a thread resurrection?!

Just visited the Peterson museum today and INCREDIBLY the plaque in front of their XJ220 continues to push the false story that customers were effectively tricked into ordering a V12 and received a V6. Boggles the mind that this narrative is still being pushed, by the owners of a pretty serious collection open to the public no less..