RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman

RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman

Author
Discussion

leon9191

752 posts

192 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
em177 said:
Erm... what? Surely if that was the case there wouldn't be a used car market!?
Its a very good point. Running the porsche will be at least double the toyota. Fuel and insurance would be the cheap bit if it needed any work doing!

em177

3,127 posts

163 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
Erm... what? Surely if that was the case there wouldn't be a used car market!?
Its a very good point. Running the porsche will be at least double the toyota. Fuel and insurance would be the cheap bit if it needed any work doing!
Yes I understand this but you want a Cayman but are worried about running costs buy one 2-3 grand under your budget and get a third party warranty?

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
TTGuy said:
stuff
Not an unbiased review at all! Nice Golf.

Also I really hope your car is a quattro, but even then it's a front wheel drive car most of the time. In fact it makes it a bit pointless to compare it to the other 3.

Edited by MSTRBKR on Wednesday 15th August 21:59

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
TTGuy said:
...TT...
...TT...
...TT...
...TT...


I know, I own one...
My surprise is palpable.

peter450

1,650 posts

232 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
I think the GT86 is ok, but it just does not capture the excitement the old 350Z launched with, i remember seeing them on the road and reading about them and thought wow thats a really really nice car, great looks, great performance and brilliant in orange!

And the RX8, great looks, interesting engine concept, neat design

This just does not generate anywere near the same level of interest/temptation to get one as those cars did, or still do

RudeDog

1,652 posts

173 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
In fact PHers can help here.

Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?
2 years ago, I had a 350Z and I was looking at moving on to something new. After crossing off all the boring uprated Saloons (M3, RS4, AMG, etc) I decided I was either going to get a new (or nearly new) 370Z or a 3 year old Cayman S. I went for the Cayman S.

I have to say, if I was in that same situation right now, I probably wouldn't have considered the Toyobaru pair just because its a bit weedy in the engine department. I've never driven one but I most likely wouldn't either.

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
I haven't driven the GT86, but 2 years ago I chose between a new 370z and a 2yr old Cayman S to replace my brilliant, but too compromised, Europa.

I found the Z to be fun, but as Chris says, it's an 8 tenths car. It reminded me of a smaller (but heavier and slower) Corvette. Characterful, soulful, capable, fun...but ultimately a bit like it needed a finishing school.

I went for a Cayman. The car is outstanding. It is as comfy as my old 5 series company car, faster than my Lotus and hugely talented...but:

I never truly gelled. I'm definitely not a Porsche brand person, and I feel uncomfortable with the image. But I can get over that if I'm having fun. The truth is; I wasn't, unless I found very empty roads. The Porsche is just too capable. The feeling of feedback, adjustability and engagement just isn't there unless you get close to a very illegal limit. At 8/10ths it just feels fast and effective.

Until...

I fitted my winter tyres, and put on an old set of Boxster 17'' rims with 215f and 245r tyres. Suddenly, I had less dry grip, but an Elise-like feedback of gentle understeer from the front that can be more than negated by leaning on the rear and forcing the blocky rear tyres to work hard. It feels deft and light on its ebay rims.

So there's the answer. To get a Porsche that's as engaging as a GT86, follow their lead and fit narrow 17s. You won't regret it.

(I might put my Panda wheels on the Cayman next)

TTGuy

40 posts

170 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
Hands-up, I don't understand any of that.

Thanks for enjoying the vid!
I fully accept that the Cayman is the best drivers car of the group. Undoubted fact - I've driven a couple! On a serious note though, it would be a shame if your car reviews always chose the car that performed best 'when you grab it by the scruff of the neck' or 'on the limit,' because the reality is very few people go there! Apart from that I'd say that your videos on Drive are the new TG!

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
F1GTRUeno said:
Just really makes me want a Cayman.
Indeed. Great noise but different kinda fun. Went through similar choices meself with Box/5 and ended up in a 5. It's a tough choice though.

Fatman2

1,464 posts

168 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
I researched all forum responses to the original GT86 video, all Twitter activity and personal emails I've received. People wanted to see 370Z and used Cayman S, plain and simple.

If you think a coupe-punter with £28k to spend wouldn't look at a used Cayman, I suspect you might be in the minority.

In fact PHers can help here.

Who, with this kind of budget, would look at a used Cayman S as well as a new Toyota/Nissan?

If people agree with you, I'll defer. Until that point I'm inclined to say you're talking tommy-rot.
Great vid Chris and I thought it was a valid piece, given the sheer amount of comments from people that have raised the Cayman/GT86 comparsion.

However, I for one would never consider a used Cayman and new GT86. I may well be in the minority but as I posted a few posts ago I believe the thought processes are very different. You hinted at this on the video as you're comparing a 5 year warranty + relatively low running costs with a 'proper' sports car with 'proper' heritage. All this leads to expensive servicing, tyres, more fuel and a big element of unpredictability.


em177

3,127 posts

163 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
Chris one thing I would like to ask, since you were rude enough not to listen to my exact video requirements [sarcasm]!

Is how you would find a group test between an '86 and an NC Mazda Mx5?

Genuinely interested in that one.

(I know I'm hardly asking the preacher of the Mazda but from someone who's spent a lot of time hooning around race tracks in Mk1 Eunos's it intrigues me!)

Cheers, EM177

pwrc

2,357 posts

151 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
nissan looks really outdated

r1ch

2,867 posts

195 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
I do like what the GT86 stands for, just the price which is off putting!

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
TTGuy said:
I fully accept that the Cayman is the best drivers car of the group. Undoubted fact - I've driven a couple! On a serious note though, it would be a shame if your car reviews always chose the car that performed best 'when you grab it by the scruff of the neck' or 'on the limit,' because the reality is very few people go there!
Enjoy your FWD Golf my friend.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
PAULBECKHAM11 said:
.. Its a very clever, back to old school, RWD car - no one cried about a E30 M3 having under 200bhp, yes things have moved on - but an M3 is still a great car and everyone still loves them!!!! k.
I suspect Toyota were trying to recreate the E30 M3 feel -RWD, 200ps, nice steering, about1200kgs, special engine flat 4 instead of the 16V IL 4.

BUT the E30 M3 was also a high quality car.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
TTGuy said:
I fully accept that the Cayman is the best drivers car of the group. Undoubted fact - I've driven a couple! On a serious note though, it would be a shame if your car reviews always chose the car that performed best 'when you grab it by the scruff of the neck' or 'on the limit,' because the reality is very few people go there! Apart from that I'd say that your videos on Drive are the new TG!
There is a quote (think it was Clarkson) that is something along the lines of "This watch is waterproof to 1000m. I'm never going to go that deep but it's nice to know that if I drop it in the sink it's going to be alright."

Don't you think it's a good thing to know you have a car that can take a thrashing? This way you know that in your normal driving you won't be spat off the road.

leon9191

752 posts

192 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
em177 said:
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
Erm... what? Surely if that was the case there wouldn't be a used car market!?
Its a very good point. Running the porsche will be at least double the toyota. Fuel and insurance would be the cheap bit if it needed any work doing!
Yes I understand this but you want a Cayman but are worried about running costs buy one 2-3 grand under your budget and get a third party warranty?
On paper yes great idea but would a 2 grand 3rd party warranty cover a full engine or gear box rebuild on the cayman? I dont think it would, not to mention tax, tyres and brakes
A second hand cayman would be a much bigger financial commintment than a new gt.

RudeDog

1,652 posts

173 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
Erm... what? Surely if that was the case there wouldn't be a used car market!?
Its a very good point. Running the porsche will be at least double the toyota. Fuel and insurance would be the cheap bit if it needed any work doing!
Yes I understand this but you want a Cayman but are worried about running costs buy one 2-3 grand under your budget and get a third party warranty?
On paper yes great idea but would a 2 grand 3rd party warranty cover a full engine or gear box rebuild on the cayman? I dont think it would, not to mention tax, tyres and brakes
A second hand cayman would be a much bigger financial commintment than a new gt.
Damn right!

Check my profile for the last 2 years of running costs for a used Cayman S. Porsche reliability is good when you compare it to Italian supercar makers, its not even in the ballpark when you compare it to Japanese reliability.

SWoll

18,206 posts

257 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
leon9191 said:
em177 said:
Erm... what? Surely if that was the case there wouldn't be a used car market!?
Its a very good point. Running the porsche will be at least double the toyota. Fuel and insurance would be the cheap bit if it needed any work doing!
Yes I understand this but you want a Cayman but are worried about running costs buy one 2-3 grand under your budget and get a third party warranty?
On paper yes great idea but would a 2 grand 3rd party warranty cover a full engine or gear box rebuild on the cayman? I dont think it would, not to mention tax, tyres and brakes
A second hand cayman would be a much bigger financial commintment than a new gt.
But on a £28K 3 year old Cayman S with 25K on the clock is it really likely to need to?

Any increase in running costs will undoubtedly be covered by the difference in depreciation of the 2 cars come soale time so I can't agree with you I'm afraid.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Wednesday 15th August 2012
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
Why not a 911? Its closer comparison with rear seats..if its just 2 seaters what about an Elise?..surely that's closer in spirit ...the lists could go on and on...

pointless compari:Dmuch to service.
The GT86 is about affordable fun that's meets the boring modern standards that NEW car buyers look for...if you couldn't afford a Cayman new chances are you couldn't afford to run a used one.
Or you're unwilling to spend unknown amounts maintaining/repairing.

Anyway, I'm in total agreement with your post. I'd reckon the smart £25k (not 28k as mentioned or 30k for the Nissan) should be placed firmly in a friendly Toyota dealers hands and feel very happy, even smug for possibly five years and then let the likes of me or fellow PH'ers buy it for a very modest 7/8k biggrin

P.s. Then Mr.Harris & Co can compare a five year old 86 with a new Cayman on smiles per pound basis.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Wednesday 15th August 22:21