RE: PH Blog: "If you see SID..."

[PiB]

Why didn't the photographer straighten out that guys tie?

The idea of a mid-engine 4x4 sounds appealing to me!

[Tim16V]

Bash Brannigan said:

Aren't prototypes usually destroyed or left to rot? Look at Albert and Edward from the Mclaren F1 story, it depressed me no end as a 14 year old reading 'Driving Ambition'. I don't understand why car companies don't generally celebrate the model's development, to geeks like me it seems a natural thing to do.

I vaguely recall that destruction of prototypes (in the UK at least) is undertaken so the manufacturer can recover VAT incurred in building them (?) and also so that the old knackered components don't creep out in to any other vehicle.

[DomRynk]

Chris, I'd love you to drive an active suspension Toyota Soarer. Built in 1991 with the similar sort of technology to the MP4-12C as far as i can work out. I have one I'm half way through fixing up - which means I've done the easy bit of removing everything but haven't yet put it all back together

Let me know if you'd like a drive of it once it's done (no time soon) and I'd love to see a video blog of these brilliant cars. They do weigh the same as a house though and the Toyota V8 isn't exactly powerful, but the amount of technology in the car is amazing for the time, it's as though they saw the active suspension Lotus' and said, yeah we'll have a go.


You can put the suspension in a test mode:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs

And here's the worlds worst camera filming two Soarers, granted the non active car looks more fun, but it shows how good the active suspension is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU


Lastly, this one probably isn't as slow as mine..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMw3IeEY7Y8

[Graham]

Tim16V said:

I vaguely recall that destruction of prototypes (in the UK at least) is undertaken so the manufacturer can recover VAT incurred in building them (?) and also so that the old knackered components don't creep out in to any other vehicle.

It is a tax thing. iirc its to do with being able to write off 100% of R&D cost against tax. if you actually sell on the vehicle ( ignoring product liability etc) then you become liable for the tax. so you could sell the car for a couple of grand and then be hit with a tax claim for millions etc..



TVR had plenty of prototypes sat rotting out in the yard..

[warren1209]

lol, *anker

[Verde]

If it's true that Lotus sold off their collection of classics in the 90's, and they are leaving this out in the elements to slowly dissolve, then they have no sense of value and history and are likely to continue the downward spiral they've been on in recent years. I would say it's sad but it's not really when it's self-inflicted.

[Tydeides]

I think Bahar was screwed. It's very easy to poke holes in something that didn't happen. I think it's a real shame for Bahar and a real shame for Lotus.

[Monkey boy 1]

IIRC, Lotus did sell off a lot of their historical collection. One car I remember seeing collecting dust was a Lotus Cortina which had been sitting in a Police lock-up in London for many years it had very low mileage on it and was believed to have been used in or by one of the Great Train robbers.
Lotus's thinking at the time(so I was told)was to sell off the cars so that they could be looked after by other enthusiasts or museums, as there was no room at Hethel to house them as they were expanding the factory for the production of the VX220 and new Elise line.
Other cars I remember seeing there were the Etna, a Mk 1 Elise designed with no windscreen, something similar to the M100 Elan but with separate cockpits, a Bond Esprit & SID was there too and an array of other interesting engineering tweaks on cars.
All this happened around the Artioli,Bugatti/Proton ownership change back in the mid 90's

[Maldini35]

Please watch this and then try to like Bahar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnpPsyp7G4o

Yes, the man had ambition (mostly personal ambition) but unfortunately it wasn't allied with intelligence.

Let's not forget:
- the £30k spent on motorsport books for his office (to create the illusion of a lifelong enthusiasm)
- £180k spent on personal helicopter for amongst other things - 'commuting' (paid for by Lotus)
- The dozens of Lotus cars littered around European airports reserved for Bahars personal use (all paid for by Lotus)
- oh and the company picking up the tab for the new £80k kitchen in his rented house.

Who does he think he is? Swizz Beatz?

[The Wookie]

To be fair, the project manager for SID has been trying to get the budget together to rebuild it, or even get the company to release it so he can buy it for donkey's years. There are legal implications with selling it on, and it would also require a fair old bit of wedge to get it up and running again.

Sadly workshop space is at a premium so it ends up occupying a space outside.

I also seem to remember some entertaining hurdles to overcome like the fact that they'd need to dig up some ancient suitcase laptop to run it!

[sclayto2]

Dave Hedgehog said:

PhilJames said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

This

And I still don't understand why ppl hate him,I liked the new line up incl the esprit

I think its because he spent a hell of a lot of borrowed money on marketing 5 cars that never existed and failed to update the engine for the 211, Exige and Elise killing them off for a while.
He slagged off the cars Lotus customers had just bought and generally devalued Lotus through his F1 legal wrangling and celebrity bull ste. Declared the existing range would be wiped out by the new cars whilst gradually admitting that 3 of the 5 new cars would be shelved.
Although hatred could be summed up in 2 words: Swizz beats

The good things he did: He rebuilt the Lotus test track, redesigned the Exige bigger and more powerful with a V6, built a lifestyle brand, got Lotus on a winning F1 car, hired Wolf Zimmerman.

thank you

Agreed. Always wondered what the fuss was about.

[Maldini35]

sclayto2 said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

PhilJames said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

This

And I still don't understand why ppl hate him,I liked the new line up incl the esprit

I think its because he spent a hell of a lot of borrowed money on marketing 5 cars that never existed and failed to update the engine for the 211, Exige and Elise killing them off for a while.
He slagged off the cars Lotus customers had just bought and generally devalued Lotus through his F1 legal wrangling and celebrity bull ste. Declared the existing range would be wiped out by the new cars whilst gradually admitting that 3 of the 5 new cars would be shelved.
Although hatred could be summed up in 2 words: Swizz beats

The good things he did: He rebuilt the Lotus test track, redesigned the Exige bigger and more powerful with a V6, built a lifestyle brand, got Lotus on a winning F1 car, hired Wolf Zimmerman.

thank you

Agreed. Always wondered what the fuss was about.

Sorry but I have to pick you up on a couple of those points:

1) Built a lifestyle brand.
Really? There is a difference between his ambition and the reality I'm afraid. You only have to visit the London Store to see this gap with reality. A prime location on Piccadilly Circus (how much to rent?). Everything is hugely overpriced (mini replica Grosjean helmet for £120 anyone?) You have to build up credibility before enabling such an ambitious pricing strategy. Just smacks of another personal vanity project, built on hope rather than sound business sense.

2)Got Lotus a winning F1 car.
Well, it hasn't won for starters and again I'd argue there's a massive credibility gap here. We all know that Lotus Cars in Hethel had nothing to do with the F1 team. A few stickers on the race car that's all. Nothing hard about getting your name on an F1 car if you throw enough (of other people's) money at it.

Bahar was a chancer, telling investors what they wanted to hear and promising results he was in no position to deliver. He was no doubt personally very charming and who wouldn't want Lotus to rise again but Bahar was more concerned in the image rather than the dirty, difficult stuff like building a profitable car company with a future.

It's all very well shooting for the stars but when you're playing fast and loose with other peoples money, not to mention the jobs and welfare of all those at the factory then I find in hard to be charitable to the man.

Edited by Maldini35 on Monday 10th September 18:08

[richb77]

£6.7M for blowing large amounts of cash (not his) on his rented home?

The blokes a fking tool.

[dingocooke]

The Wookie said:

....to be fair, the project manager for SID has been trying to get the budget together to rebuild it, or even get the company to release it so he can buy it for donkey's years....

...be nice to see it restored by the people who know it properly and gave birth to it...if Lotus don't get lucky and find a buyer or somebody to get them out of the mire, the project manager might well be able to buy it at auction sometime soon anyway....so sad once again to see a great name in the s h i t, but even worse that its (allegedly) been rogered by a boss with his hands in the till...

[thiscocks]

Totally agree. Ever since the F1 sponsorship rubbish he masterminded I always thought he was a pillock with no respect for the history of Lotus. Says it all really that hes now still trying to shaft them..

[G_Reaper2]

I remember SID!! What a car!

I am surprised it survived the sale of all the other valuable prototypes (Etna), Bond cars etc. that took place a few years ago.

I bought an S3 Esprit Turbo prototype that had connections with the bond film "For Your Eyes Only" back in the early 90's from a Lotus specialist who was getting container loads of development & warranty parts (+ the odd car) out of the back door of the factory.

Lotus never seem to be able to look after their heritage and Mr B was about to destroy the heritage and years of world leading technology development of the art of using fibre glass by ditching all production in f. glass. He should be paying Lotus damages!!! Wasn't he sacked from Ferrari! I wonder why???

Mike Y

[Cloverleaf76]

I share Monkey's anger. Sadly, Bahar appears to be only the latest greedy, over ambitious charlatan of the type that the UK motor industry attracts from time to time, including John DeLorean, John Towers at MGRover, Lord Stokes at BLMC (remember him and the Austin Maxi?). Is it us or do other countries and sectors suffer in the same way? And is the Motoring Press (with some distinguished exceptions on Bahar, including Chris, SniffPetrol etc) doing enough to investigate and expose these people, or is it too much hand in glove with the industry (eh, Steve Cropley?).

[G_Reaper2]

Please everyone DO NOT FORGET when talking about Mr. B that he was all set to ditch ALL fibreglass use on the production cars and move to aluminium etc like Ferrari.

Why when you are world leaders in a technology would you ditch it. Colin Chapman I think would have had something to say about this backwards move.

Has anyone looked at the problems of electrolytic reactions on the joints of Ferrari body work. They are terrible!! Apparently according to the Ferrari owners its OK to have to get your Ferrari resprayed every few years or so to get rid of all of the paint blisters.

Cheers Mike

[PiB]

Okay so here's a circa 1983 Esprit Lotus adaptive suspension . . .

http://youtu.be/iPQ66fW9RAM

Perhaps this technology is where the future exists for Lotus.

[Dave Hedgehog]

PiB said:

Okay so here's a circa 1983 Esprit Lotus adaptive suspension . . .

http://youtu.be/iPQ66fW9RAM

Perhaps this technology is where the future exists for Lotus.

• *k me they could bore for their country lol