RE: Europe's most (and least) reliable used cars

[HowMuchLonger]

Okay just twigged that the sample pool is taken from cars who have a warrenty with direct.
Since this is for cars between 3 and 6 years old, you should automatically exclude cars with a long manufacturers warrenty as these will not be in the sample pool.
Cars which are inherantly cheap to fix should also be excluded from the pool as these will not normally have an aftermarket warrenty.

Blah blah blah

(Not suprised LR are in the mix though)

[A.J.M]

HowMuchLonger said:

tomoleeds said:

2002 onward Range Rovers,suffer gearbox failure between 100-125k,

Wow!
Does this comment cover all the different types of gearboxes used? I would imagine that there are only a couple of the 8speed boxes that have covered this sort of mileage, so for your facts to stand true of the 2 that have covered 100K+ there must be either a 50% or 100% failure rate.

He should mean 02-05 models or those with the TD6 engine as they are weak for some reason.

Imo, there are only 2 people who buy after market warrenties, those who like the security of a warrenty as their car gets older, and those who know their car has a known issue, and buy's the best warrenty that will cover said issue when it does appear knowing the cost of buying the warrenty is much cheaper than the repair bill.

I have been in the 2nd group, with warrenty direct funnily enough.

[Waugh-terfall]

Blackpuddin said:

In honour of your quality lurking:

Top 10 most reliable European cars

Mercedes-Benz E-Class (06-09)
Skoda Fabia (07-)
Smart ForTwo (07-)
Volvo C70 (06-)
Renault Scenic (03-09)
Peugeot 207 (06-12)
Volvo S80 (06-)
Citroen C3 Pluriel (03-10)
Mini One (07-)
Seat Ibiza (06-09)

Get in there!

Blackpuddin said:

Top 10 least reliable European cars, from the same source:

Land Rover Discovery (04-09)
Bentley Continental GT (03-10 )
Renault Espace (03-)
Mercedes-Benz SL (02-11)
Land Rover Range Rover Sport (05-10)
Renault Grand Scenic (04-09)
Saab 9-3 (02-)
BMW 7 Series (01-08)
Mercedes-Benz CLS (05-)
Renault Megane (02-09)

Yes.... and don't I know it.


DSC00409 by Waugh-terfall, on Flickr

Spent 4 hours in the dark with a colleagues' in pieces trying to save him £300 for a ridiculously common fault.

[TaylotS2K]

Vauxhall Corsa's must be up there for being unreliable...not in terms of mechanicals, but in terms of interior trim. Probably the most shoddy interiors of any newish cars on the market from any mainstream brand.

[Fire99]

Bradgate said:

You may have a point, but I would suggest that the complexity of some modern premium cars is also a factor. There is a lot to potentially go wrong on a Discovery (4WD drivetrain, air suspension, hill descent control, switchable off-road modes, bluetooth, infotainment system, auto lights & wipers, DPF, electric seats, climate control, multi-mode transmission etc etc)than on a Fabia (metal box, engine, 4 wheels, seats).

The much simpler car, if built properly, should be inherently more reliable because there is much, much less to go wrong.

So what's the story with the likes of the current model Toyota Land Cruiser etc? They are loaded with gismo's but seem to keep working.

Relatively speaking, my 90's Lexus had Heated, Electric Seats, Electric Memory Steering Wheel, Cruise Control etc and there was never a peep from any of it.

Much of LR's technology is natural progress but (and correct me if I'm wrong) the Japanese seem to be able to make them significantly more reliable than JLR can. I don't think there is a genuine excuse for that.

[andy43]

Blackpuddin said:

Top 10 most reliable European cars

Mercedes-Benz E-Class (06-09)
Skoda Fabia (07-)
Smart ForTwo (07-)
Volvo C70 (06-)
Renault Scenic (03-09)
Peugeot 207 (06-12)
Volvo S80 (06-)
Citroen C3 Pluriel (03-10)
Mini One (07-)
Seat Ibiza (06-09)

Bullst.
E class is far too complicated.
Smart isn't great.
Renault Scenic may well have caught Megane/Laguna electrical disease.
Citroen Pluriel

Statistics can produce some very odd results.

Meanwhile I suspect all the Jap (for example) owners are happily covering zillions of miles with no forking out on a warranty and no problems other than wear and tear.

[andy43]

WD's desperate publicist said:

The 7 Series BM recorded the survey's largest single claim, at £10,120.39.

And do we get to find out whether they paid out or wriggled?

[kiwifraser]

Anyone know where we can find the full list?

[andy43]

Double post. And I don't even have an iProduct

[Fetchez la vache]

Fire99 said:

Not great that Discovery's and RR Sport's are down there. I really can't see an excuse for this.

No excuse, but the reason is the RRS is based on the Disco so will share the same presumably axle/ suspension...

[bertie]

Fetchez la vache said:

No excuse, but the reason is the RRS is based on the Disco so will share the same presumably axle/ suspension...

Based on is an understement, the rolling ahcssis and drivetrain are identical.

The chassis and drivetrain go down the line and it isn't until they put the body on that it becomes Discovery or Sport.

Never understood the appeal of the Sport, drives exactly the same as a Discovery (since it is the same) but costs £10k more and is less practical and less roomy, and 2 less seats

[sodslaw]

surely this is a retarded sample?

- Reliable cars don't need warranties - Thus people won't buy them for nearly new 1l piece of st fiestas

- Demographics!!!!!!!!!!! There are types of buyers and thus vehicles that are warrantied.

- You'd only buy a warranty on a secondhand/older car. What about KIA and their 7 year warranty? anyone?

[LancerG]

The Telegraph reports Top Gear and Warranty Direct

13th = Skoda
14th = Citroen

So all you french bashers can put that in your pipe and smoke it

[PhilRS]

Surely, Morgans would be near the top of least reliable? I speak from experience!

[Fire99]

Fetchez la vache said:

No excuse, but the reason is the RRS is based on the Disco so will share the same presumably axle/ suspension...

Maybe a tough one for a non JLR employee to ask, but why can't they sort the known Axle / Suspension issues?? The evolution of Range Rover has gone on for about 50 years, and after the P38 I thought reliability would be their No1 priority.

That said, it doesn't seem to stop them selling.

[Darren61]

Waugh-terfall said:

Blackpuddin said:

In honour of your quality lurking:

Top 10 most reliable European cars

Mercedes-Benz E-Class (06-09)
Skoda Fabia (07-)
Smart ForTwo (07-)
Volvo C70 (06-)
Renault Scenic (03-09)
Peugeot 207 (06-12)
Volvo S80 (06-)
Citroen C3 Pluriel (03-10)
Mini One (07-)
Seat Ibiza (06-09)

Get in there!

Blackpuddin said:

Top 10 least reliable European cars, from the same source:

Land Rover Discovery (04-09)
Bentley Continental GT (03-10 )
Renault Espace (03-)
Mercedes-Benz SL (02-11)
Land Rover Range Rover Sport (05-10)
Renault Grand Scenic (04-09)
Saab 9-3 (02-)
BMW 7 Series (01-08)
Mercedes-Benz CLS (05-)
Renault Megane (02-09)

Yes.... and don't I know it.


DSC00409 by Waugh-terfall, on Flickr

Spent 4 hours in the dark with a colleagues' in pieces trying to save him £300 for a ridiculously common fault.

How odd you should post this picture. My R26 Megane passenger side window regulator has just failed. Luckily its a great drive as otherwise I think I would have got shot of it, in terms of reliability and maintenance costs, its beyond a joke!

[Jimllfixit]

So the Renault Scenic is 5th MOST reliable, and the Grand Scenic 6th LEAST reliable. Yet one is just an elongated version of the other?!
I suspect these "statistics" have been plucked from someone's arse!

[Fox-]

How does this work? How can the E Class be the most reliable used car in the UK yet the CLS is the least when they are both fundamentally the same car with the same engines built on the same platforms by the same people sold by the same dealers and serviced by the same dealers?

it's not quite as hilariously stupid as claiming a Focus Estate is the most reliable and a Focus hatch is the least but it's not far off.

[Baddie]

Jimllfixit said:

So the Renault Scenic is 5th MOST reliable, and the Grand Scenic 6th LEAST reliable. Yet one is just an elongated version of the other?!
I suspect these "statistics" have been plucked from someone's arse!

Agreed. Or sample sizes are too small. Or perhaps all modern cars are unreliable.

[Baddie]

Bradgate said:

You may have a point, but I would suggest that the complexity of some modern premium cars is also a factor. There is a lot to potentially go wrong on a Discovery (4WD drivetrain, air suspension, hill descent control, switchable off-road modes, bluetooth, infotainment system, auto lights & wipers, DPF, electric seats, climate control, multi-mode transmission etc etc)than on a Fabia (metal box, engine, 4 wheels, seats).

The much simpler car, if built properly, should be inherently more reliable because there is much, much less to go wrong.

Yes, but the much more complex car comes with a much much bigger profit margin.... that is not used to ensure an upgrade in quality to support the gizmos.