1990s Bentley vs Lexus LS430

[longblackcoat]

MUDGUTZ said:

Thanks Gents.

I currently do 15,000 miles per year. That costs me £300 per month in petrol. If I bought a Bentley and managed 16 MPG I would be paying £500 per month.

Allow an extra few thousand for maintenance per year, maybe another £200 per month on top. So before anything else: £4800 a year extra. Thats a good holiday or a cheap Boxter, a fantastic Hi-Fi...

All this I know and can just about accept but the Bentley would have to be a superior ride, which I have doubts about although the overall package would be nice to have. I couldn't accept having another car, the only thing that gets me to work some days is a serene commute in the Lexus. So putting the running costs aside for a moment, I have to know that a Bentley would be safer. The stability and traction control aspects don't really worry me, whilst I would be aiming to 'make good progress', I don't feel the need to drive like a loon. As far as I can see, driver and possibly passenger airbags are the only things fitted.

A Bentley will not be safer - it's an old design, with far fewer of the safety features that a Lexus has. Will it be safe enough? Almost certainly yes, but to make it safer than a Lexus would be a very hard ask indeed. And although they've made a massive silk purse out of a sow's ear, an old-style Bentley originated as a real pig's ear. Really impressive considering what they started with, but still not good enough, in my opinion.

But if you can live with all of the impracticalities and the fact that it's going to double your fuel bill, then go for it.

Edited by longblackcoat on Wednesday 3rd October 14:19

[BrettMRC]

The Bently will be a nice experience, but you will find that it becomes a victim of others poor dirving - especially in car parks due to its size.

The LS is a better package all round.

As has been said above - worth looking at an A or S8 for £10k, very good cars.

[300bhp/ton]

279 said:

Take it from someone who has worked on them and perhaps is able to see the forest a little more for the trees, wanting to run one daily for anything other than a short commute is crazy. This nonsense about being able to fix them on a pittence because parts coming in bentley bags makes them 1000% more expensive is just that, nonsense. They aren't cheap to run, that's not saying that you can run one on the cheap, but as an only car i wouldnt.

I assume that's aimed at me?

There must be some parts that can be bought cheaper by not going through a Bentley specialist.

[infradig]

300bhp/ton said:

279 said:

Take it from someone who has worked on them and perhaps is able to see the forest a little more for the trees, wanting to run one daily for anything other than a short commute is crazy. This nonsense about being able to fix them on a pittence because parts coming in bentley bags makes them 1000% more expensive is just that, nonsense. They aren't cheap to run, that's not saying that you can run one on the cheap, but as an only car i wouldnt.

I assume that's aimed at me?

There must be some parts that can be bought cheaper by not going through a Bentley specialist.

You'd think,but I never found 'em! There are of course quite a few specialist breakers,the only one I have experience of is Introcar,who seemed very knowledgeable and offered a good service but certainly not cheap.

[300bhp/ton]

infradig said:

You'd think,but I never found 'em! There are of course quite a few specialist breakers,the only one I have experience of is Introcar,who seemed very knowledgeable and offered a good service but certainly not cheap.

But what sort of parts are we talking about?

For example, some people will believe you'd have to go to a Bentley specialist to get new wipers fitted. Where as you could go to Halfords and a fraction of the price.

The latter Turbo R's use the GM 4L80e transmission. You'll find this in most automatic GM trucks from the early mid 1990's onwards. Filters and bits for them are cheap and lots of places can work on them. But how much would Bentley charge for a gearbox filter if you wanted it in a Bentley box?


A great example I've cited before, back in the day when Land Rover moved the Range Rover up market and introduced the Disco and when Unipart used to do all Rover parts. If you went into a dealer and wanted a door mirror for a Range Rover you'd pay double what a door mirror for a Discovery would cost. They are the same item and the same part (different part numbers for the price only). Because they knew they could fleece a Rangie owner for more money.

I've seen this with other parts, such as a standard air filter for a 5.3 XJ-S, it's the same filter as used on a standard TR7 2.0, however will likely cost you more if you want the "Jaguar" one.


I'm certainly not saying for minute that a Bentley will be cheap to run, only that I'm 100% sure you can run them and be a bit savvy and not over pay for parts or labour. Which will have the affect of making it a lot cheaper to maintain and run.

[infradig]

Yes,things like everyday bulbs ,wiper blades etc can be got from local motor factors even filters,plugs and brake pads aren't expensive. But as soon as something breaks it's not going to be cheap.I had to get an indicator lens for mine and it was over £100,from memory the rear ones are over £500.Proper Avons set me back £1500,it would have been cheaper to buy a set of 17'' wheels but I had high ideals of keeping it original(mug!)
Mine needed a fuse box after a heater pipe split and it was a £4,000 bill to rectify. this and an impending hydraulic service prompted me to move it on. Compared to what some people spend on main dealer servicing a Merc or BMW they're not over the top ,but you have to be prepared to budget £4/5000 a year and with 4 kids at home I just can't afford that.When they finally all bugger off though......

[300bhp/ton]

£4k for a fuse box how?

[infradig]

Its not just a fuse box,its also the control box for the aircon and to be fair that did include labour, it was made worse by me not investigating the anti-freeze smell when it happened and ignoring it for a couple of weeks,letting everything corrode nicely!

[frosted]

The lexus for me

[MUDGUTZ]

Thanks for all the input so far guys, this makes for an interesting topic.

I'm probably within that group of over 40s who have plenty of NCD and can take the hit on fuel, who start to look at cars they previously thought beyond their budget.

Here are some figures to throw into the conversation: If I put off this purchase for, say, 3 years, the money I would have saved by running an old Lexus (just fuel and maintenance alone against a 1990s Bentley) could amount to nearly £15,000, so at that point I might be in the market for a much newer model, circa £25,000 then rather than £10,000 now. This must change the whole position, so I could be looking for a much newer model, such as an Arnarge for example. At that age, I would be happier that what I was in was as safe as required. Obviously, one could play this game forever and that wouldn't be the point but it makes me think about it. Why run a 1995 car when in three years I can run a 2000 car which is a whole different vehicle from the ground up.

[infradig]

I went from thinking early 4.4 Arnages weren't real Bentley's to realising that they and the V12 Seraph must be the'poor'mans way to run one on a 7 series budget. Think there are still rust issues on early ones though. The big V8 has a lot of charm but I could live with 20mpg potential and cheap ebay BMW parts especially if it was Black or Red Label pimped.

[MUDGUTZ]

From this one for sale: 2002 Arnarge


ABS/EBD
Driver and passenger airbags
Driver and passenger side airbags
ESP + MSR + ASR
Front and rear thorax airbag system
Front seatbelt pretensioners
Full size curtain airbags
HBA (Hydraulic Brake Assist)

These are the sort of safety features that I'm talking about.

[J4CKO]

A relative of mine drives various Bentley's and other high end stuff part time as a driver, he says he much prefers the Continental to the older models, very underwhelmed with the Arnage he drove, so from a driving point of view I dont think the Bentley is probably that big of a revelation, Range Rovers are preferable apparently, all second hand of course but I thought it a useful insight, I guess that you dont buy an older Bentley for such reasons, its a heart versus head decision and I expect that despite the review I got they are still a lovely drive and a Turbo R in the right colour and spec is a lot more distinctive than the newer models.

[theironduke]

This is the block which will be propelling a 90's Bentley. A 6.75l, single cam beast! Theres nothing in the pic for scale but it's huge! Makes a Rover V8 look pathetic... Oh and the block alone takes two people to lift. I doubt you'd ever see more than 20 out of it, i've read a bit about them (in Shadows) and urban is single figures!

[k-ink]

300bhp/ton said:

£4k for a fuse box how?

Exactly. Halfords will only get you so far! Personally I'd rather run a Lambo if I had to lay out epic amounts per year. By comparison running a Lexus would be about as expensive as running a skateboard.

[inman999]

I'm still amazed you can get 28MPG out of a LS400.

I could barely get that drafting behind a large lorry.

[ODJ]

Arrived half an hour early for the school pick up today in my ls430. Sat in the back reclined the rear seats, put massage on, closed the blinds, set the rear Ac and set up the delightful mark levison from the rear console the LS is a luxury class act -28 mpg on the way home too

[Fire99]

MUDGUTZ said:

From this one for sale: 2002 Arnarge


ABS/EBD
Driver and passenger airbags
Driver and passenger side airbags
ESP + MSR + ASR
Front and rear thorax airbag system
Front seatbelt pretensioners
Full size curtain airbags
HBA (Hydraulic Brake Assist)

These are the sort of safety features that I'm talking about.

Maybe consider working from home That is one stage away from being permanently wrapped in bubble-wrap.

[Ten Four]

Again I refer dad's old 88 Mulsanne.
That thing was a minter.

I still preferred the LS400 (1990 model). I was younger at the time but I was so impressed that I bought my own 1994 LS400 this year - cost absolutely nothing bar fuel to run.
Dad sold the Bentley a while ago due to just running costs etc. He also had a 1980 silver shadow II - that had a crack in the block after changing coolant one day... Costs were around $25k AUD to replace with another engine.
Then the tailshaft died...
Eventually both cars were sold and he bought another 1997 LS400.

From personal experience, I've yet to sit in a car that's more comfortable, smooth and quiet inside than a LS400. Plus - they don't break.

IMHO the Bentley is merely a status symbol. Slow, uneconomical, unreliable, old tech (late 80s/early 90s ones) and simply not as comfortable.

Safety - Again, granddad had a 97 LS400 and my dad mannaged to get rear ended in it by a pug 206 while he was stationary @ 60-70mph. They only wrote off the LS400 because of the cost of replacement new panels.... No injuries suffered, pug total write off.

[phone] Lexus.

[ukmike2000]

I wouldn't drive ANY car if I was thinking all the time about its safety. I am from the old generation when cars came with 4 inch wide cross plys and seat belts were something futuristic.

Going back to the topic, as nice as a Lexus may be, it is at heart a Toyota and the Bentley is a Bentley. I wouldn't commute in either - the thought of a carelessly opened door hitting the side of my car would prevent me enjoying it. I would definitely have the Bentley and keep a cheaper car for the commute.