RE: PH poll: best hot hatch
Discussion
JonRB said:
300bhp/ton said:
Really? Not sure if serious or not..
Yes, ok, having seen your chart I withdrew my comment, although you have now quoted it. Whilst the Corrado has a hatch back I suppose it's more of a sports coupé. Having said that, I don't really think the Integrale or the Clio V6 count as hot hatches either. The Clio V6 may be an extreme example, perhaps the pinnacle of hot hatches, but then isn't that even more reason for having it in the list? At the end of the day it is still a Clio. And if you say "no" due to only two seats you've then also got to say "no" to the MINI CS GP or the Megane R26.r, which all gets a bit silly as the r26.r only really differs from the R26 in having the rear seats removed, stickier tyres, perspect windows and a CF bonnet (oh and some optional stickers).
300bhp/ton said:
If you can explain how it isn't a hatch - I'll listen. Or even better come up with a universal rule that'll work for all hot hatches 
I can't really be arsed. I withdrew my Corrado comment, and just happened to say in passing that I personally don't feel that the Intregrale or Clio V6 are 'Hot Hatches' in the conventional sense. But that's not good enough for you - you always have to pummel people who disagree with you into submission until you 'win', even if it is simply by default because they got bored and gave up. And I have already reached that point so I guess you 'win'. Well done. Have fun.
JonRB said:
I can't really be arsed. I withdrew my Corrado comment, and just happened to say in passing that I personally don't feel that the Intregrale or Clio V6 are 'Hot Hatches' in the conventional sense. But that's not good enough for you - you always have to pummel people who disagree with you into submission until you 'win', even if it is simply by default because they got bored and gave up. And I have already reached that point so I guess you 'win'.
Well done. Have fun.
Actually Jon, I'd much rather lose and be wrong if it achieved the correct answer. But ho hum... Well done. Have fun.
JonRB said:
Fair enough, 300bhp/ton. I should have known better than to disagree with you on a thread you have adopted as your own. 
Jon already been down this road. Seems what qualifies as a hot hatch is what 300bhp says it a hot hatch and any comment other than those he agrees with is not valid!Cheers
Kieron
Agent Orange said:
JonRB said:
Fair enough, 300bhp/ton. I should have known better than to disagree with you on a thread you have adopted as your own.
Jon already been down this road. Seems what qualifies as a hot hatch is what 300bhp says it a hot hatch and any comment other than those he agrees with is not valid!Cheers
Kieron
All I've asked is, if you say something isn't a hot hatch, explain how and why. And if those explanations then rule out other cars, then either so be it, or if not, then logic states that such an explanation isn't right.
e.g.
If you say 'x' isn't allowed as it was a hmologation car (Integrale) then that means a Clio Williams is also ruled out on the same basis.
If you say no n/a only, then an Uno Turbo or MG Metro Turbo therefore aren't allowed.
It's that simple.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 5th October 11:50
How about including a qualifier which accounts for something like cost of a model vs the next one down in the range, or vs average cost of the entire range?
That would satisfy those who see the hot hatch definition as being something that was designed to be inclusive of the masses rather than the outliers that things like the lancia, Cosworth and clio v6 are.
That would satisfy those who see the hot hatch definition as being something that was designed to be inclusive of the masses rather than the outliers that things like the lancia, Cosworth and clio v6 are.
DrTre said:
How about including a qualifier which accounts for something like cost of a model vs the next one down in the range, or vs average cost of the entire range?
That would satisfy those who see the hot hatch definition as being something that was designed to be inclusive of the masses rather than the outliers that things like the lancia, Cosworth and clio v6 are.
I guess. Think it'd be hugely complex though, as would you use the MSRP/RRP/list price or any/all potential options?That would satisfy those who see the hot hatch definition as being something that was designed to be inclusive of the masses rather than the outliers that things like the lancia, Cosworth and clio v6 are.
You can spec a MINI CS JCW to astronomical price levels if you want too.
Also weren't cars like the Focus RS500 rather pricey too vs the rest of the Focus line up?
I'm afraid I don't actually know what sort of money a Delta Integrale retailed at, however in light of the fact they sold 44,000 of them, I assume it was a long way off supercar levels. I don't know exact figures, but did TVR manage 44,000 cars in all it's history?
Yeah, am not saying it'd be easy but it's probably a key factor in what many people consider a hot hatch to be.
And it doesn't/shouldn't have to include any speccing of anything, just basic price of the model.
fyi I think the original integrale was around 16k, rising to 25 by evo2. Point being, it's nothing to do with any other car, super or not, it's comparing like with as close to like as possible: the rest of the range.
And it doesn't/shouldn't have to include any speccing of anything, just basic price of the model.
fyi I think the original integrale was around 16k, rising to 25 by evo2. Point being, it's nothing to do with any other car, super or not, it's comparing like with as close to like as possible: the rest of the range.
DrTre said:
That's bottom (i assume) to top of range which isn't what I suggested, although that may still be usable as a metric that would weed out the outliers.
Sorry you are right, I think someone else said about top to bottom prices.Do you know how much these were new:
Delta HF Turbo
Delta HF 4WD
Delta Integrale 8v
300bhp/ton said:
Sorry you are right, I think someone else said about top to bottom prices.
Do you know how much these were new:
Delta HF Turbo
Delta HF 4WD
Delta Integrale 8v
Not at the moment, the 8v was around sixteen thousand from memory...but that may be wrong...there's an autocar scan somewhere on the net,.where it's pitched against the testarossa.Do you know how much these were new:
Delta HF Turbo
Delta HF 4WD
Delta Integrale 8v
It was only a suggestion, but it kinda makes some sense to me, just because although I can see these cars are by objective definition hot hatches, they also aren't, by a more subjective/emotive definition.
Madmatt74 said:
How do you class "Hot hatch"?
Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
I still cant see a better way to discribe "Hot Hatch"Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
Anyone else fancy a try?
Madmatt74 said:
Madmatt74 said:
How do you class "Hot hatch"?
Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
I still cant see a better way to discribe "Hot Hatch"Ive seen many people try to describe them so i'll have a go.
I would say if your granny can buy a basic 1.3 or lower engine size and they do a Hot version then is should be classed as a hot hatch.
That will exclude the Quattro's, Subaru's and Jenson Interceptor's etc. Jenson, really? lol
The Escort cosworth still gets in and why not. They do a 1.3 and the XR3i and Turbos were hot hatches in the day.
Doesnt matter if it FWD, RWD or 4WD.
3 or 5 door.
Front, middle or rear engined.
Turbo or not.
1.6 or 3.2.
Or that it didnt come in red.
Anyone else fancy a try?
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