RE: You Know You Want To: BMW 1 M

[900T-R]

^^^^

I know it's hardly any lighter than the E9x M3, but on driving the two you could well be fooled into thinking it is. It just feels so much more compact, immediate, alive and 'four square', sort of like a rear wheel drive MINI - heartening that in this day and age, cars like this are still being made every now and then.

[Guvernator]

Cheers CB, a lot clearer now.

The first part of your post was something I have suspected but has nothing to do with dynamics of the car and more to do with the engine. The N54 engine is very good in real world driving and making the car feel extremely quick, I should know, I have a 335i. To be honest most turbo cars are like this and will feel incredibly quick due to the massive slug of torque you get which makes the car feel faster than it is. An M3 however IS quicker in a straight line, this is a fact proven my countless tests despite what the seat of the pants feeling tells you, I suspect your mapped car will be a lot closer though.

The thing is while we as PH'ers like to sing the merits of a nice revvy NA, 95% of people actually are better off with a turbo car as in real world situations, it feels\will be quicker without having to rev the nuts of it. I wonder if people are responding to this change in driving style positively compared to the rather harder to drive M3?

Your second point is very interesting though and if the cars do feel so dynamically different in the twisties, I might just have to take a 1M for a spin to give it a go, that's if I can get over the (ahem) challenging looks

[bertie]

Dave Hedgehog said:

very true

but likewise it would be a wasted opportunity not to take the piss out of BMWs shoddy software security

Software by Continental I believe, but yes, truely ste system design all the same

[900T-R]

Guvernator said:

The thing is while we as PH'ers like to sing the merits of a nice revvy NA, 95% of people actually are better off with a turbo car as in real world situations, it feels\will be quicker without having to rev the nuts of it. I wonder if people are responding to this change in driving style positively compared to the rather harder to drive M3?

I don't think this is necessarily the case - it just works out this way with this pairing (oh, and Evo concluded there's very little in it between the two flat out, too).

I'd say it's more a question of torque/weight and gearing, than N/A versus forced induction. The delivery of my TVR (big N/A engine in light car) is more in the style of the 1M, while my former modified Saab turbo only came into its own at high speeds.

[Guvernator]

900T-R said:

I don't think this is necessarily the case - it just works out this way with this pairing (oh, and Evo concluded there's very little in it between the two flat out, too).

I'd say it's more a question of torque/weight and gearing, than N/A versus forced induction. The delivery of my TVR (big N/A engine in light car) is more in the style of the 1M, while my former modified Saab turbo only came into its own at high speeds.

My turbocharged cars have always felt hugely quicker and easier to drive then my NA's, despite the fact that in reality some weren't. My 335i feels quicker than a friends M3 in isolation but side by side he'll disappear into the distance so just wondering if the easy nature of the 1M's engine is proving favorable to the quicker but harder to extract performance of the M3 in comparisons between the two. I've heard A LOT of comments that the M3 feels relatively flat unless you are properly on it, some people will love this, others not so much.

[bertie]

I much prefer the instant, crisp throttle response and engine braking of N/A over the always present lag and woolly throttle of turbocharging.

However due to efficiency and enviromental target forced induction is the future so I'd better get over it!!

[SRM355]

The 1M almost feels normally aspirated - it's extremely responsive and no noticeable lag. If you haven't driven one, have a go in one, they are very impressive for a turbo charged car....

bertie said:

I much prefer the instant, crisp throttle response and engine braking of N/A over the always present lag and woolly throttle of turbocharging.

However due to efficiency and enviromental target forced induction is the future so I'd better get over it!!

[bertie]

SRM355 said:

The 1M almost feels normally aspirated - it's extremely responsive and no noticeable lag. If you haven't driven one, have a go in one, they are very impressive for a turbo charged car....

bertie said:

I much prefer the instant, crisp throttle response and engine braking of N/A over the always present lag and woolly throttle of turbocharging.

However due to efficiency and enviromental target forced induction is the future so I'd better get over it!!

I'm sure it's very impressive, but it'd seem like a downgrade from the M3.

I've driven Mclaren 12c and awesome though it is, you can still feel the influence of the turbos on the throttle response.

[Mermaid]

bertie said:

I've driven Mclaren 12c and awesome though it is, you can still feel the influence of the turbos on the throttle response.

Nothing more to say on that score.

[Bezza1969]

I rated this car a 10...I just Love it!!!

As a point of principle, I really do find drivers of normal 1 series BMs some of the most irritating sons of guns on the planet, but the quick ones are ace! If we could just jetisson every 118d and 120d driver into space, the roads would be a calmer place for all!!!!

[Wolands Advocate]

bertie said:

I'm sure it's very impressive, but it'd seem like a downgrade from the M3.

Only as regards the coal-hole interior perhaps. The M3 is certainly more luxurious in that respect.

[Mermaid]

Wolands Advocate said:

Only as regards the coal-hole interior perhaps. The M3 is certainly more luxurious in that respect.

If only 450 M3's had been made, would we view it differently?

[mlhj83]

Guvernator said:

All those saying the 1M is lighter and smaller and that the M3 feels big and bloated in comparison, you do realise that the difference is tiny right? The 1M is 70kgs lighter, the exact same width and only 10 inches shorter. It also uses the exact same running gear, in fact the only really major difference is the engine.

I've not taken a 1M for a drive but I'm keen to hear from those who have, where they think all this extra dynamism over the M3 comes from as the bare specs would indicate otherwise.

I own an M3 DCT Competition pack and have driven and been as a passenger in my best friend's 1M extensively - both on road and track. I for one can tell you that I have no idea why some peeps keep saying the M3 is big and cumbersome compared to the 1M - like you said, it is only slightly longer in length, but track width is pretty much the same. Despite the additional weight of the M3, it has a lower centre of gravity and its weight is spread across a larger wheel base. I also feel that the 1M shouldn't really be compared to a non-competition package M3 as the suspension of the non competition pack version is slightly softer and has a longer travel, thus making it feel softer and lazier compared to the 1M. Also the very wheels that the 1M has, makes a huge difference in steering response and overall handling and is a noticeable advantage over the the M3's standard 18s or the optional 19s. The 1M wheel also called 359M, is not only wider for an increased tyre foot print, but also makes the overall track width wider and reduces the lateral flex of the tyre sidewall. The same wheels also come on the M3 if the competition pack is specced and there is a very obvious difference in how much the 359M wheels "stick out" compared to an M3 with it's non-competition package optional 19s. I have 2 sets of wheels for my M3 - 18s for road and 359M for the track - and it makes a significant difference on handling and lap times when I compared my 18s and my 359M with the same tyres on the same circuit.

The 1M has a shorter wheel base therefore rotates more quickly, contributing the the increased agile feeling over the M3, but it is easy to misinterpret the M3's decreased rotation (compared to the 1M) as being less agile - the front end of the M3 moves every bit as quickly as the 1M. In fact, objective slalom tests of both cars show either similar slalom speeds between both cars, or a couple mph higher for the M3. As I said, it really depends on which M3 is being compared to, given the multitude of suspension options - standard, optional EDC, Edition, competition pack, saloon or coupe, production year (M made improvements to steering over production cycle) - and 3 different tyres. In the end of the day, both are very similar cars in the terms of chassis, but produce thrust in a very different manner; neither is clearly better, it just depends on what one prefers and how one intends to use it. The 1M has been setup to be "in-your-face" while still being relatively comfortable, thus easily puts a smile to anyone's face, while the M3 in its docile settings is cosseting but with layers of performance accessible depending on options and how one sets the car up. Again, neither is better, it depends on what one prefers. I also personally feel that M3 should really be specced with DCT as it really suits the nature of the high revving engine and it's peaky power. The DCT also has shorter gear ratios from 2-6 compared to the manual and thus improves acceleration and elasticity even further. The M3 has plenty of power to really go, but one has to been in the right gear, while the 1M doesn't need to be in the right gear given its torque.

I have also been the "fish out of water M3" that has been part of the PH SS 1M convoy and have organised the recent Welsh trip that posters Aussieinlondon, Rsmatt and AS7620 have been a brilliant part of. I'm sure they can tell you that my M3, which is completely oem, had absolutely so problems carving AND jumping the tightest and most technical of roads in the Wales at speed with 7 other 1Ms - some modified, some standard. And here's a shameless plug for our recent Wales trip on bimmerpost - complete with photos and videos from Aussieinlondon and me: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74...

Cheers!

Edited by mlhj83 on Tuesday 9th October 19:00

[Wolands Advocate]

Only from a residuals perspective. As the risk of sounding like a stuck record, the M3 has stacks more appeal on paper, it's better-looking and it has a much nicer interior. But when I got behind the wheel, the 1M was just more fun to drive. Possibly not as talented a driver's tool but much more of a giggle and definitely lairier.

To put it another way, the M3 is almost too smooth by half. By contrast, the 1M doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word.

[Mermaid]

Wolands Advocate said:

To put it another way, the M3 is almost too smooth by half. By contrast, the 1M doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word.

One will grow on you, and you will tire of the other?

[bertie]

Wolands Advocate said:

bertie said:

I'm sure it's very impressive, but it'd seem like a downgrade from the M3.

Only as regards the coal-hole interior perhaps. The M3 is certainly more luxurious in that respect.

Well not to me, but in reality, if you had an M3, why would you swap it for a 1M.

Even if they are on a par, why spend the money to stay the same.

[Wolands Advocate]

Mermaid said:

One will grow on you, and you will tire of the other?

Quite possibly. I don't own either and don't propose to either. But I did try out both two years ago (I had a pre-launch drive in the 1M before you question my timing claims!) with an eye to purchasing one or the either...before getting an M5 instead!

bertie said:

Well not to me, but in reality, if you had an M3, why would you swap it for a 1M.

Even if they are on a par, why spend the money to stay the same.

Is anyone suggesting you should? No, I think the comparison is being made between which to get, not whether to swap one for t'other.

[bertie]

Wolands Advocate said:

bertie said:

Well not to me, but in reality, if you had an M3, why would you swap it for a 1M.

Even if they are on a par, why spend the money to stay the same.

Is anyone suggesting you should? No, I think the comparison is being made between which to get, not whether to swap one for t'other.

Well I said I wouldn't want to swap my wifes M3 for one, and someone said I ought to try one.

Hence my comment, I'm sure it's be fun, but I wouldn't want to swap the M3 for one.

Edited by bertie on Tuesday 9th October 19:02

[Dogtown]

I guess it depends where you drive it. The 1M might feel more at home than an M3 on smaller roads because of its size but as mentioned above I don't think that's much of an issue most of the time.
Having owned both I'd venture to suggest that an M3 with DCT and comp pack is a better all round proposition. Personally I think it's a more complete package with fewer practical shortcomings. Whilst the 1M is fine on long journeys the M3 is better and with DCT it's much easier in traffic around town. The only place it loses out is in fuel consumption ( besides depreciation etc )
The best part though is the engine, it's epic, just way more bespoke and exciting. The noise it makes is leagues above that of the 1M which I thought was slightly disappointing and also boomy on motorway runs.

[Mermaid]

Dogtown said:

.. Whilst the 1M is fine on long journeys the M3 is better

For very high speed autobahn journeys, the M3 is much better.