Have we accepted fuel prices and started having fun again??
Discussion
Well, not that we have much option but to accept petrol prices. Funny that; when you pay for it the price is always none-negotiable!
Reading of people's latest acquisitions on here over the last few months it seems that we have no qualms in buying slightly beefy engined petrol cars. Petrol is circa £1.40 throughout the UK and has been stable in this respect for a couple of months now, and it seems the choice of new motor around here is something that typically returns around 25mpg, like a BMW 330i.
Have you chaps been running sensible 1.2 Clios while times have been hard, the chips have been down, but have now admitted defeat and gone back to larger engined cars because you want your fun back?
Or am I totally missing the point and forgetting that PH is for petrol heads, and so we've always run these types of cars, through thick and thin, regardless of how expensive fuel might have been in the recent past (?)
Answers on a postcard!
Reading of people's latest acquisitions on here over the last few months it seems that we have no qualms in buying slightly beefy engined petrol cars. Petrol is circa £1.40 throughout the UK and has been stable in this respect for a couple of months now, and it seems the choice of new motor around here is something that typically returns around 25mpg, like a BMW 330i.
Have you chaps been running sensible 1.2 Clios while times have been hard, the chips have been down, but have now admitted defeat and gone back to larger engined cars because you want your fun back?
Or am I totally missing the point and forgetting that PH is for petrol heads, and so we've always run these types of cars, through thick and thin, regardless of how expensive fuel might have been in the recent past (?)
Answers on a postcard!
I reckon that with the complexity of emmissions reducing technology in petrol and diesel engines, PHers have chosen to spend more on fuel than more on car repairs, it's a lesser of two evils.
I changed from a Diesel Mondeo to a 525i knowing that I'd get through a lot more fuel but the risk of a big bill (four figures!) is significantly diminished. One DMF, turbo, injector etc failure would wipe out the fuel savings for that whole year.
You have to keep it in perspective, fuel prices are broadly comparible across western Europe but the UK has the cheapest second-hand cars market!
I changed from a Diesel Mondeo to a 525i knowing that I'd get through a lot more fuel but the risk of a big bill (four figures!) is significantly diminished. One DMF, turbo, injector etc failure would wipe out the fuel savings for that whole year.
You have to keep it in perspective, fuel prices are broadly comparible across western Europe but the UK has the cheapest second-hand cars market!
HustleRussell said:
I reckon that with the complexity of emmissions reducing technology in petrol and diesel engines, PHers have chosen to spend more on fuel than more on car repairs, it's a lesser of two evils.
I changed from a Diesel Mondeo to a 525i knowing that I'd get through a lot more fuel but the risk of a big bill (four figures!) is significantly diminished. One DMF, turbo, injector etc failure would wipe out the fuel savings for that whole year.
You have to keep it in perspective, fuel prices are broadly comparible across western Europe but the UK has the cheapest second-hand cars market!
Very good point well made. I am currently in the same quandary you may have previously been in when returning to petrol from a diesel car. I don't do massive miles, probably one motorway run a week, which is still only a round trip of 70 miles. However putting diesel in the tank has enabled me to run largish saloon cars that will return reasonable MPGs; like you I have a 5 series but it's a 530d. Regardless of my moderately small mileage, and even the fact that petrol is cheaper than diesel, I'm still reticent to go out and replace it with a 540i or the B6 Audi S4 Avant I'm currently considering, I just don't fancy putting all that fuel in the tank to return 23mpg. So you could say I'm a diesel convert.I changed from a Diesel Mondeo to a 525i knowing that I'd get through a lot more fuel but the risk of a big bill (four figures!) is significantly diminished. One DMF, turbo, injector etc failure would wipe out the fuel savings for that whole year.
You have to keep it in perspective, fuel prices are broadly comparible across western Europe but the UK has the cheapest second-hand cars market!
But then I've also experienced tough love running diesels. My last car was an Alfa, and for a diesel it had plenty of character with its 5 pot 2.4, loads of torque and fun in spades akin to a petrol car. But it needed a clutch and DMF: £900 in bits plus labour, £1,200 in all, so it had to go. Prior to that I ran another 5 pot diesel; Mercedes C270 cdi. Wonderful car until persistent fuelling problems arrived, again a foible that only tends to rear its head on a diesel car. I got rid before it threw its hand in with a big bill. And now I'm behind the wheel of an E39 530d, which by all accounts is a superb car. Just taken it round France, 3,000 miles in all. It's ten years old and still has its swirl flaps intact. However I wonder what nasty surprise is lurking next for me. A friend of mine has a car that is mechanically identical; 2002 E46 330d, he has now run into issues with the dreaded injectors. A couple of hundred pounds later and lots of dealings with so-called 'diesel specialists', and needless to say the car still isn't right. And so he feels it's time to get rid, and so the cycle of buying and running flaky diesels will no doubt continue.
I will always argue that like for like, diesels are that little bit better than petrols to run, regardless of your mileage, (but assuming your commute does involve some kind of journey where a diesel engine will pay off). However it does constantly cross my mind that unless your car is new and under warranty, there is always going to be a big looming expense with running one, and so this renders the whole diesel thing a complete false economy.
Edited by ajb85 on Tuesday 9th October 09:40
Went from a 2.0TDI Octavia to a 330i this year.
When I discovered that the company car cash alternative I recieve pays out 26p a mile for a 3l petrol and 15p for a 2l diesel, I'm actually much better off with a the petrol by about £160 a month. the BMW does almost 40mpg on a run so costs much less in fuel than the scheme pays out
Win for me as it pays for my weekend fun fuel :-)
When I discovered that the company car cash alternative I recieve pays out 26p a mile for a 3l petrol and 15p for a 2l diesel, I'm actually much better off with a the petrol by about £160 a month. the BMW does almost 40mpg on a run so costs much less in fuel than the scheme pays out
Win for me as it pays for my weekend fun fuel :-)
Edited by djglover on Tuesday 9th October 09:43
ajb85 said:
I will always argue that like for like, diesels are that little bit better than petrols to run, regardless of your mileage, (but assuming your commute does involve some kind of journey where a diesel engine will pay off). However it does constantly cross my mind that unless your car is new and under warranty, there is always going to be a big looming expense with running one, and so this renders the whole diesel thing a complete false economy.
I agree; I would be making a £900/year saving running diesel instead of petrol and even if I do have diesel problems, it's unlikely to eclipse that saving totally once you average it over over a 3 year ownership.Although, I buy cars at the £2-3k, >100k miles end of the market so the likelihood of running into a problem is quite high.
Also there are other factors to consider. For my sins I can now recognise a 2.0 Ford TDCI by sound alone. It's dreadful! And I don't miss the thick fug of diesel smell I used to get when I started it up on the driveway either. And I don't miss the fact I couldn't use less than 1,500RPM (flywheel damage) or more than 3,750RPM (totally out of puff!).
A 530D would be better with respect to all of this but I wanted an E34 5-series which never got that engine. So instead I'm putting up with 27MPG, and in exchange? petrol I6 soundtrack and 750-6,800RPM usable rev range!
ajb85 said:
So, given the above, would you or wouldn't you return to diesel? Who's won?
I would have both as my current mileage stands.Diesel daily and something for the weekend with large petrol engine. The 530D that I have now doesn't sound too bad and is quite a nice drive as far as the daily commute goes.
If my miles were to go down to 40% or less of what it is now, I will get a petrol car when my current car reaches the end for me.
My wife's next car will be a petrol (2L+). She currently has a 2L diesel.
The problem with living with a diesel for so many years and switching back to petrol is the awareness that you're visiting the pumps far more often than you used to, even after sitting down with pen, paper and calculator and concluding that in actual fact you'd be better off with a petrol. It would irritate me, although I realise that statement doesn't make a great deal of sense.
Impressing yourself with your diesel's fuel range is also a difficult habit to shake off...
Impressing yourself with your diesel's fuel range is also a difficult habit to shake off...
ajb85 said:
The problem with living with a diesel for so many years and switching back to petrol is the awareness that you're visiting the pumps far more often than you used to, even after sitting down with pen, paper and calculator and concluding that in actual fact you'd be better off with a petrol. It would irritate me, although I realise that statement doesn't make a great deal of sense.
Impressing yourself with your diesel's fuel range is also a difficult habit to shake off...
Hmm, I'm mulling over the petrol v diesel conundrum. Currently have a Fabia vRS SE, which is now paid for – and can’t decide what to go for next. However, as I’m averaging about 10,000 a year – then surely the petrol is the better way? I often go to Wales to watch a Rally, fill up before I go and not need to fill up again....and return silly MPG figures...Impressing yourself with your diesel's fuel range is also a difficult habit to shake off...
Choices....Renaultsport Clio, Skoda Yeti, Citroen DS3, Mazda MX5, Mini Cooper D.....
The only reason I ended up with a diesel was because I changed my 2 door M3 for a 5-series due to an imminent addition to the family ...
Diesel made sense at that time ...
Otherwise, I would still have been using the M3 for the same miles - with the annoying need to visit the pumps every other day, or sometimes twice in one day.
Diesel made sense at that time ...
Otherwise, I would still have been using the M3 for the same miles - with the annoying need to visit the pumps every other day, or sometimes twice in one day.
Bougth a Citroen C1 that does all the local jobs, to be honest it is great having a smaller car for town based stuff, still have the 944, why use that at 22 MPG for a journey I know I wont enjoy, like the other morning, had to got to the post office which is a fair distance (too far to walk in a reasonable time before work) and is down a tight back street where parking is a nigthmare, the little C1 was great, its about choosing the right tool for the job and a 944 isnt it and neither is a Ford Galaxy. The C1 does 40 plus whatever you do with it.
I do very little miles, thanks to the locality of my work so I sold my car.
With that money I passed my bike test, bought all the gear, a 60bhp motorbike and insurance for the year. Now I have a vehicle with good performance, excellent reliability and it returns 60-70mpg.
It'll be cold when the weather sets in though
With that money I passed my bike test, bought all the gear, a 60bhp motorbike and insurance for the year. Now I have a vehicle with good performance, excellent reliability and it returns 60-70mpg.
It'll be cold when the weather sets in though
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