RE: Ecoboost Formula Ford coming?

RE: Ecoboost Formula Ford coming?

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Discussion

epom

11,396 posts

160 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Could, being the most important word in that article.

Skater12

507 posts

157 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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hairykrishna said:
Skater12 said:
chuntington101 said:
Aizle said:
So, estimates on how much Ford would sell these at.

1) A limited run of 50.
2) Supply to meet demand (many more?)

I'll open the bidding at £30k
Ford sell the race chassis and 1.6ecoboost engines for about £50K at present! I would guess the price would be higher than £30.
My guess will be £49,995 otr.
It wont be priced based on production cost, simply because of the amazing promotion it'll give other models in the range that use the same engine.
If Ford lost £20k per car and did a limited run of 50 cars, that's only a loss of £1m, which in the realms of marketing isn't that much at all when you consider it won't be advertised in the same way. TV advertising, advert production etc etc, non of that will be done.
If anything, it'd probably one of Fords cheaper ways to promote the new engine and its capabilities.
If they're only making 50 why wouldn't they price them higher? They still get the marketing and I bet they'd still sell at 75k. The BAC mono's going to be 80k+ and that's a similar market.

I'd love them to start producing enough of them that they could bring economies of scale and sell them cheaper!
The BAC Mono for starters has a 2.3 ltr lump, so more expensive.
Also, it's a small company, that needs to price their cars high in order to get their money back.
Ford has the engine, the chassis, a design studio....etc so doesn't need to price the car so high that it raises the question of "but it's only a 1 ltr engine "
IF it gets made i still think sub £50k, just because they can.

vrooom

3,763 posts

266 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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I wonder if it possible to widen this formula ford to create 2 seater version, with narrower suspesion wishbone setup would be any good.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
vrooom said:
I wonder if it possible to widen this formula ford to create 2 seater version, with narrower suspesion wishbone setup would be any good.
It might be easier to lengthen it and put another seat behind the driver?

n4aat

457 posts

211 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Skater12 said:
My guess will be £49,995 otr.
It wont be priced based on production cost, simply because of the amazing promotion it'll give other models in the range that use the same engine.
If Ford lost £20k per car and did a limited run of 50 cars, that's only a loss of £1m, which in the realms of marketing isn't that much at all when you consider it won't be advertised in the same way. TV advertising, advert production etc etc, non of that will be done.
If anything, it'd probably one of Fords cheaper ways to promote the new engine and its capabilities.
Agreed. But they have already got the marketing for the engine from this and other reviews of this "potential" launch. So, job done.

scubadude

2,618 posts

196 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
£50K- you lot are sniffing something surely, closer to double that I'd wager. Price Vs What you get goes out the window when manufacturers discuss such nonsense.

Wonderfully bonkers, credit to Ford if they do it, it'd make a great excutive commuter car, fast, economical and only room for one, like a BMW M5 ;-)

Skater12

507 posts

157 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
vrooom said:
I wonder if it possible to widen this formula ford to create 2 seater version, with narrower suspesion wishbone setup would be any good.
Not easily, baring in mind the reason they could make the "road car" was because they had the chassis already, and it just needed minor touches to make it road legal.
Widening the Chassis will require a hell of alot of work to make a car that isn't really suited to motorsport, and only grabs a niche market of KTM X-bow, Ariel Atom type owners, which Ford wouldn't be interested in pursuing.
The only reason this car exists is because they already have the parts available, and the development is relatively minimal.

Boydie88

3,283 posts

148 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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wemorgan said:
Many people talk the talk about owning such a car. But in reality it's very niche. Most people simply want two seats in their w/e sports car and even in their track cars to share the experience.
My commute is 20 miles. 18 miles is windy B road. I'd have one of these for a daily in a flash if the British weather wasn't so wk.

andylaurence

438 posts

210 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
It's not a £50k car. The rolling chassis is £33k+VAT and an engine isn't going to be much. I'd expect ~£40k for a production run of 50 or so. The second seat isn't much of an issue, although everyone thinks it will be. I bought a two seater so I could share the experience with others. The grand total of passengers since I bought it in 2010? One.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
andylaurence said:
It's not a £50k car. The rolling chassis is £33k+VAT and an engine isn't going to be much. I'd expect ~£40k for a production run of 50 or so. The second seat isn't much of an issue, although everyone thinks it will be. I bought a two seater so I could share the experience with others. The grand total of passengers since I bought it in 2010? One.
So that's 40k for the chassis on its own - they say 5k for the engine and at least a few thousand more for the various bits and bobs needed to make it road legal plus IVA fees, registration costs, etc.

Skater12

507 posts

157 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
andylaurence said:
It's not a £50k car. The rolling chassis is £33k+VAT and an engine isn't going to be much. I'd expect ~£40k for a production run of 50 or so. The second seat isn't much of an issue, although everyone thinks it will be. I bought a two seater so I could share the experience with others. The grand total of passengers since I bought it in 2010? One.
So that's 40k for the chassis on its own - they say 5k for the engine and at least a few thousand more for the various bits and bobs needed to make it road legal.
So £49,995 otr then

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
I wonder what the mainstream insurance industry would make of it. hehe

Gizmoish

18,150 posts

208 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Would love to see these built. "Skunk works" projects are always cool.

Ford won't make a loss on them though - even if is "the marketing budget". Imagine the advert: showing one of these cruising down a country road - slowly, you can't glamourise speed in ads - and cutting to a 1.0 Focus. Pointless.

And it's not like people will see one of these at a track day and go "wow, I must buy a Focus!".

So they'll need to make a profit. £60k, I reckon.


Boydie88

3,283 posts

148 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
So that's 40k for the chassis on its own - they say 5k for the engine and at least a few thousand more for the various bits and bobs needed to make it road legal plus IVA fees, registration costs, etc.
But then the arguments of mass making the chassis come in. The manufacturing cost won't be close to that if more were built.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
kambites said:
So that's 40k for the chassis on its own - they say 5k for the engine and at least a few thousand more for the various bits and bobs needed to make it road legal plus IVA fees, registration costs, etc.
But then the arguments of mass making the chassis come in. The manufacturing cost won't be close to that if more were built.
You think another 50 of them would bring the manufacturing costs down significantly?

CDP

7,454 posts

253 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Gizmoish said:
Would love to see these built. "Skunk works" projects are always cool.

Ford won't make a loss on them though - even if is "the marketing budget". Imagine the advert: showing one of these cruising down a country road - slowly, you can't glamourise speed in ads - and cutting to a 1.0 Focus. Pointless.

And it's not like people will see one of these at a track day and go "wow, I must buy a Focus!".

So they'll need to make a profit. £60k, I reckon.
They won't need to. Fifth and Top Gear will scream it round the track for them only to be repeated daily on Dave.

Skater12

507 posts

157 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
I wonder what the mainstream insurance industry would make of it. hehe
Limited mileage cover, plus 1 ltr engine. Reckon it'd be relatively easy and comparably cheap to insure.
Parts availability and servicing costs make up a huge amount of an insurance premium, so given that those are no problem I can't see why insurance would be an issue at all.
Probably end up being cheaper to insure than an equivalently priced used 911, Caterham, Ariel Atom etc.

Captain Muppet

8,540 posts

264 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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xRIEx said:
kambites said:
I was actually pondering ripping out the engine and replacing it with an electric motor, then filling the side pods with batteries; which would solve some of those problems. smile

Would wishbones need to be radiused (is that even a word) since they're exposed?
They would need to meet radius requirements for external protrusions, but nothing in the picture suggests they don't already.
I saw the actual car a few weeks ago: everything was radiused, as you'd expect from a car that's been through IVA already.

wemorgan

3,578 posts

177 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
You think another 50 of them would bring the manufacturing costs down significantly?
I doubt the manufacturing method of a steel tube chassis would change if making 1 or 50 of these cars.
It's the upfront R&D costs that are shared per vehicle. But as mentioned in an earlier post, this is more about marketing for Ford, than trying to recover costs.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
wemorgan said:
kambites said:
You think another 50 of them would bring the manufacturing costs down significantly?
I doubt the manufacturing method of a steel tube chassis would change if making 1 or 50 of these cars.
It's the upfront R&D costs that are shared per vehicle. But as mentioned in an earlier post, this is more about marketing for Ford, than trying to recover costs.
So's the whole Formula Ford program though, I'd imagine. I can't imagine Ford are making a profit selling the racing cars at 50k a piece?