RE: Focus RS - the next generation
Discussion
I'm not entirely sure Nick knows what AFR is. Even if they are the same the ST/RS still had nearly an extra litre of capacity, so even if the ratios are identical the volume will still be higher.
Anyway, as soon as manufacturers start quoting AFR as a measure of efficiency i'll be sure to change my opinion.
Anyway, as soon as manufacturers start quoting AFR as a measure of efficiency i'll be sure to change my opinion.
NicholasLawrence said:
So the new Ford Focus is 350hp?
I think I read something about different engine, no longer 2.5 litre?
Sorry for not reading every comment - it is difficult with the ''quote'' thing all over the place, re-reading things more than once hurts my mind.
Now. The Ford Focus ST 2.5 ST/RS305 are very clever! I love how they work and are very economical engines! Cheaper to drive than some Citroen Saxo VTR if you test. These engines use hardly any fuel, and make good power.
Regarding the silly diff nonsense I think Ford do need to stop aiming for 'peak' hp figures, and stop giving pub 'anchors' things to talk about while swigging beer, which will undoubtedly lead to them driving home in the aforementioned vehicle.
Without going off at a tangent, I have driven both 2.5 ST and 2.5 RS305 and aren't overly impressed. Given the choice I would happily own the older 2.5 ST 225hp (more than enough for FWD), and VERY cheap to run. The higher powered models do use more fuel (obviously), but still very good on fuel.
I have no knowledge of the RS500 never studied.
If these new engines are 2.0 litre turbo, I wonder if they've gone back to the ''old'' setup, like Ford Focus RS MK1 which is beautiful but not as cheap as the 2.5 litre that came after.
Sorry for talking too much
Having owned both a 2.5 ST, Standard RS, and latterly Mountune MP350 RS, the MP350 was the most fuel efficient of the the lot, followed by the standard RS.I think I read something about different engine, no longer 2.5 litre?
Sorry for not reading every comment - it is difficult with the ''quote'' thing all over the place, re-reading things more than once hurts my mind.
Now. The Ford Focus ST 2.5 ST/RS305 are very clever! I love how they work and are very economical engines! Cheaper to drive than some Citroen Saxo VTR if you test. These engines use hardly any fuel, and make good power.
Regarding the silly diff nonsense I think Ford do need to stop aiming for 'peak' hp figures, and stop giving pub 'anchors' things to talk about while swigging beer, which will undoubtedly lead to them driving home in the aforementioned vehicle.
Without going off at a tangent, I have driven both 2.5 ST and 2.5 RS305 and aren't overly impressed. Given the choice I would happily own the older 2.5 ST 225hp (more than enough for FWD), and VERY cheap to run. The higher powered models do use more fuel (obviously), but still very good on fuel.
I have no knowledge of the RS500 never studied.
If these new engines are 2.0 litre turbo, I wonder if they've gone back to the ''old'' setup, like Ford Focus RS MK1 which is beautiful but not as cheap as the 2.5 litre that came after.
Sorry for talking too much
M135i Auto is most definitely quicker in every situation. No torque limits in the first two gears for one thing.
If you look at the magazine features, this is Bourne out by the figures. For example to quote auto car
"So even though BMW is frequently conservative with its performance claims, we were surprised when, two up and with a full tank of fuel, the M135i posted a two-way average 0-60mph sprint of just 4.6sec."
The BMW doesn't handle as well though, I think the RS was in another league there. Some would say it just handles differently, which it does, but the speed you could carry with the RS was something else. The BMW is just a much better all rounder, a nicer place to be.
I have ordered some Eibach Anti roll bars for the BMW to see if it stiffens it up a little whilst not buggering up the ride.
If you look at the magazine features, this is Bourne out by the figures. For example to quote auto car
"So even though BMW is frequently conservative with its performance claims, we were surprised when, two up and with a full tank of fuel, the M135i posted a two-way average 0-60mph sprint of just 4.6sec."
The BMW doesn't handle as well though, I think the RS was in another league there. Some would say it just handles differently, which it does, but the speed you could carry with the RS was something else. The BMW is just a much better all rounder, a nicer place to be.
I have ordered some Eibach Anti roll bars for the BMW to see if it stiffens it up a little whilst not buggering up the ride.
urquattroGus said:
M135i Auto is most definitely quicker in every situation. No torque limits in the first two gears for one thing.
If you look at the magazine features, this is Bourne out by the figures. For example to quote auto car
"So even though BMW is frequently conservative with its performance claims, we were surprised when, two up and with a full tank of fuel, the M135i posted a two-way average 0-60mph sprint of just 4.6sec."
The BMW doesn't handle as well though, I think the RS was in another league there. Some would say it just handles differently, which it does, but the speed you could carry with the RS was something else. The BMW is just a much better all rounder, a nicer place to be.
I have ordered some Eibach Anti roll bars for the BMW to see if it stiffens it up a little whilst not buggering up the ride.
Thanks for that. Sounds great. If you look at the magazine features, this is Bourne out by the figures. For example to quote auto car
"So even though BMW is frequently conservative with its performance claims, we were surprised when, two up and with a full tank of fuel, the M135i posted a two-way average 0-60mph sprint of just 4.6sec."
The BMW doesn't handle as well though, I think the RS was in another league there. Some would say it just handles differently, which it does, but the speed you could carry with the RS was something else. The BMW is just a much better all rounder, a nicer place to be.
I have ordered some Eibach Anti roll bars for the BMW to see if it stiffens it up a little whilst not buggering up the ride.
Clivey said:
In what way (where do you feel it isn't as good as the Focus RS)?
Robbed from post of mine of "Baby Bmw Forum";Cornering wise though, the RS was a league above in my book. Very very flat cornering, with stupendous grip, and a more confidence inspiring chasis. The BMW rolls a lot in compasrison, which might actually be good on a bumpy road with the softer setup.
The quaife diff is a thing of wonder. If its dry, it feels a bit like 4WD dragging you through a corner, you think you have reached the cars limit, but if you are brave enough you just put more power on and it drags the car around.
There were a few times when I remember agressively driving through a series of clear roundabouts and or sharp bends and I was just astounded by the grip. Always more than you think thanks to the wide track and masses of rubber coupled with the diff.
The Focus posted the same or better lap time as the for GT supercar around fords Lommel proving ground in Belgium for what I can remember.
Absoultely crap low speed ride though, and I would never swap back!
I now have a stealth machine that is quicker and a delight to drive day to day!
Update: I am going to fit Eibach Anti Roll Bars to the M135i this weekend, and see what kind of improvement there is if any... Also; Playing the hooligan in the BMW still isn't getting old, it's properly quick, and sport plus mode allows you you let it move about a bit with a degree of safety net.
Edited by urquattroGus on Thursday 9th January 10:48
urquattroGus said:
Robbed from post of mine of "Baby Bmw Forum";
Cornering wise though, the RS was a league above in my book. Very very flat cornering, with stupendous grip, and a more confidence inspiring chasis. The BMW rolls a lot in compasrison, which might actually be good on a bumpy road with the softer setup.
The quaife diff is a thing of wonder. If its dry, it feels a bit like 4WD dragging you through a corner, you think you have reached the cars limit, but if you are brave enough you just put more power on and it drags the car around.
There were a few times when I remember agressively driving through a series of clear roundabouts and or sharp bends and I was just astounded by the grip. Always more than you think thanks to the wide track and masses of rubber coupled with the diff.
The Focus posted the same or better lap time as the for GT supercar around fords Lommel proving ground in Belgium for what I can remember.
Absoultely crap low speed ride though, and I would never swap back!
I now have a stealth machine that is quicker and a delight to drive day to day!
Update: I am going to fit Eibach Anti Roll Bars to the M135i this weekend, and see what kind of improvement there is if any...
Thanks for the reply! So how does the BMW feel in comparison (I imagine it's not as "chuckable" and has lower grip limits but is more playful once you've (b)reached them)? The RS strikes me as a car that probably has masses of grip and traction but on the limit handles like any other FWD hatch (understeer). I've not driven one to find out though! Cornering wise though, the RS was a league above in my book. Very very flat cornering, with stupendous grip, and a more confidence inspiring chasis. The BMW rolls a lot in compasrison, which might actually be good on a bumpy road with the softer setup.
The quaife diff is a thing of wonder. If its dry, it feels a bit like 4WD dragging you through a corner, you think you have reached the cars limit, but if you are brave enough you just put more power on and it drags the car around.
There were a few times when I remember agressively driving through a series of clear roundabouts and or sharp bends and I was just astounded by the grip. Always more than you think thanks to the wide track and masses of rubber coupled with the diff.
The Focus posted the same or better lap time as the for GT supercar around fords Lommel proving ground in Belgium for what I can remember.
Absoultely crap low speed ride though, and I would never swap back!
I now have a stealth machine that is quicker and a delight to drive day to day!
Update: I am going to fit Eibach Anti Roll Bars to the M135i this weekend, and see what kind of improvement there is if any...
Clivey said:
Thanks for the reply! So how does the BMW feel in comparison (I imagine it's not as "chuckable" and has lower grip limits but is more playful once you've (b)reached them)? The RS strikes me as a car that probably has masses of grip and traction but on the limit handles like any other FWD hatch (understeer). I've not driven one to find out though!
You are pretty much on the money there. However, the RS did not really under steer too much that I can remember. It would certainly lift off over-steer gently if you wanted it to.I think the quaife diff makes it different to an ordinary FWD. If you look at the Renault Megane which is also highly rated it's a similar story.
Apply more gas and the front seems to drag you round.
What you did have to worry about more was hitting a pothole or big bump, might knock you off course because it is so stiff. Wrecking the low profile tyre and cracking a wheel is quite possible...
The RS is prone to low speed understeer if you try to turn-in too quickly. Once up to speed I never had any understeer problems. In fact, at the limit on track, its balance is very much oversteer. I definitely wouldn't say its nose led on the limit. In fact in my experience the opposite is true.
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