RE: Ringside Seat: no news is good news?
Discussion
PascalBuyens said:
Martian O said:
I'm not deserting the 'ring, I'm there on Sunday driving this Scirocco and again in less than two weeks time doing the same! That'll be ten times I've been to Nurburg this year! 
Honestly, you should come when I'm around instead of trying to avoid me all the time 
Verde said:
Perhaps someone can explain in lay terms, under what ownership and financial model the 'Ring is governed? I always thought it was a piece of public roadway but clearly not. And the definition of terms will of course bear on the means of it's resolution. So, who is an expert here?
I dearly hope that the leadership of the Ring doesn't get 'outsourced' to a wealthy group from anywhere but where is resides. The people in the area seem to be fortunate enough to have a wonderfully rich (in value and history) piece of roadway in their midst and why they should not benefit from that is a mystery to me.
V
The nurburgring infrastructure is owned by a company, Nurburgring GmbH, which is owned by the state. The company is insolvent and filed for bankruptcy some months ago. The operation is leased to another company, Nurburgring Automotive GmbH ('NAG') which is a private company.I dearly hope that the leadership of the Ring doesn't get 'outsourced' to a wealthy group from anywhere but where is resides. The people in the area seem to be fortunate enough to have a wonderfully rich (in value and history) piece of roadway in their midst and why they should not benefit from that is a mystery to me.
V
The Nurburgring has lost money for many many years. it's always been something of a loss leader for the local economy which is largely based on tourism. The financial problems stem from the politicians who decided that the nurburgring should make a profit. Their vision was that tourists would flock to the Nurburgring in the winter months (when the tracks are covered by 3 feet of snow) to shop at a mall, eat at their eifeldorf restaurants and ride on a roller coaster then stay in the new hotels. In brief, private investors were not interested in the development.
The state (Rhineland) 'bailed out' the nurburgring development, borrowing up to €500 million from a state owned bank. The EU has provisionally stated that this is illegal State Aid and an investigation is ongoing. Meanwhile, a fraud trial started a few weeks ago. The principal defendant is the ex finance minister who allegedly authorised dodgy payments of millions of euros. Five others are co-defendants.
In short, it's a mess and I'd expect it to be privatised or rather ironically bought by VW, which itself was once a state owned company.
It's inevitable that NAG will file for bankruptcy; a question of when, not if.
VonSenger said:
fwaggie said:
(I realise as I've never been to the Ring this comment will come across as a bit "armchair enthusiast" but it isn't meant that way!)
Gotta love ph! Go do a few laps then come back and comment. Sounds harsh.....but it's not meant to be 
Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
fwaggie said:
Since when was it a PH rule that to comment on anything one needs experience in that very thing? Or is that just you being daft?
Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
Don't be a c0ck. How can you can you critique someone's driving constructive or otherwise when you've never experienced it????Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
Sounds like some very dodgy dealings went on there then.
It clearly got a bit popular for it's own good and some greedy people got involved and screwed something up along the way
Going under to rise again as something better is no bad thing. It might take some years but anything that is meant to be, will be... if there is money to be made there will be business!
Dave
It clearly got a bit popular for it's own good and some greedy people got involved and screwed something up along the way
Going under to rise again as something better is no bad thing. It might take some years but anything that is meant to be, will be... if there is money to be made there will be business!
Dave
VonSenger said:
fwaggie said:
Since when was it a PH rule that to comment on anything one needs experience in that very thing? Or is that just you being daft?
Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
Don't be a c0ck. How can you can you critique someone's driving constructive or otherwise when you've never experienced it????Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
And if the driver actually want to *talk* to people, as opposed to just arguing or insulting people, they'd say something like "whilst it may appear like that, it's because XYZ" or similar, and someone knows a little bit more than they did.
However, it's blatantly obvious that you're not interested in talking, preferring to make a fool of yourself. I can happily confirm you're acheived this target, so cheerio.
agtlaw said:
Batfink said:
Was the track profitable before they built all the shopping malls, rollercoasters and hotels?
no. from memory they were €60 million in the red before the development even started.Didn't the place used to be run as a toll road? (hence you could get busses, etc, on it)
You would think the running costs would be the barriers, the physical road maintenance and the main toll gates area. Did they lay on other things like parmanent breakdown / ambulance / fire services? €60 million is a lot of debt for one section of road!
fwaggie said:
VonSenger said:
fwaggie said:
Since when was it a PH rule that to comment on anything one needs experience in that very thing? Or is that just you being daft?
Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
Don't be a c0ck. How can you can you critique someone's driving constructive or otherwise when you've never experienced it????Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
And if the driver actually want to *talk* to people, as opposed to just arguing or insulting people, they'd say something like "whilst it may appear like that, it's because XYZ" or similar, and someone knows a little bit more than they did.
However, it's blatantly obvious that you're not interested in talking, preferring to make a fool of yourself. I can happily confirm you're acheived this target, so cheerio.
Thus it looks like people are going really slow, when in actual fact if you were in a car doing an 8 minute lap there you'd be lining your underwear with brown streaks
Dave
Its a hell of a pickle. Ironically the situation is a bit like having Greece a bit closer to home. Its bankrupt but the place is its own debtor ie the government would only owe the money to itself if it did go bust. Crazy.
The other issue for a potential buyer is how much longer it will continue to be such a draw. My 4th visit this year was the quietest I've seen it. May be down to better traffic management may be down to people been put off by high prices. One thing that's for sure is that if a new buyer comes along they will have to pay a heck of a lot for it and that will result in even higher prices. The best thing anyone can hope for at the moment is probably the status quo as new owners depending who they are and how they run the place may be very very bad news.
If ecclestone comes along do you think he will have 3rd party companies offering track hire on his circuit? I very much doubt it.
The other issue for a potential buyer is how much longer it will continue to be such a draw. My 4th visit this year was the quietest I've seen it. May be down to better traffic management may be down to people been put off by high prices. One thing that's for sure is that if a new buyer comes along they will have to pay a heck of a lot for it and that will result in even higher prices. The best thing anyone can hope for at the moment is probably the status quo as new owners depending who they are and how they run the place may be very very bad news.
If ecclestone comes along do you think he will have 3rd party companies offering track hire on his circuit? I very much doubt it.
fridaypassion said:
...The other issue for a potential buyer is how much longer it will continue to be such a draw. My 4th visit this year was the quietest I've seen it....
I have been 9 times so far this year, going again next week and it's always been busy between the months of March through October. Last weekend was quiet because of the rain and it's getting cold, but there was some good metal lapping the circuit and taking advantage of having the track to yourselves at times. Sure there were a couple of incidents on Sunday, but the track remained opened all day, a rare thing to see in the warmer months! Saying that, I was there last November with temperatures around 22'c and eating al fresco, that's the Eifel for you!It won't close down, that's the feeling local business people I've spoken with believe, and I do too.
Oh there's no doubt it will stay open its just what kind of place it could be under new owners. People moan a bit now but under proper private ownership it could be a lot worse.
The other thing is how long it will remain the must do attraction it still is at the moment. Will it run out of steam at some point?
The other thing is how long it will remain the must do attraction it still is at the moment. Will it run out of steam at some point?
fwaggie said:
VonSenger said:
fwaggie said:
Since when was it a PH rule that to comment on anything one needs experience in that very thing? Or is that just you being daft?
Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
Don't be a c0ck. How can you can you critique someone's driving constructive or otherwise when you've never experienced it????Hint : Conversation includes, among other things, the exchange of ideas and experiences. Exchange implies passing on of knowledge, which implies the knowledge wasn't there in the party the knowldege is being passed too.
And if the driver actually want to *talk* to people, as opposed to just arguing or insulting people, they'd say something like "whilst it may appear like that, it's because XYZ" or similar, and someone knows a little bit more than they did.
However, it's blatantly obvious that you're not interested in talking, preferring to make a fool of yourself. I can happily confirm you're acheived this target, so cheerio.
agtlaw said:
It's inevitable that NAG will file for bankruptcy; a question of when, not if.
This has, predictably, happened.http://www.allgemeine-zeitung.de/nachrichten/polit...
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