RE: The Ferrari Macnab

[IAJO]

Agrispeed said:

... a good example of this is badgers, but that is another thread...

Edited by Agrispeed on Friday 9th November 11:55

Edited by Agrispeed on Friday 9th November 11:55

I live in the countryside and am not pro or anti but badgers is not a good example as it lacks evidence and is arguable either way. Point is why introduce sensitive non car issues that cause ill feeling onto a car enthusiast website, especially when there is so little about the car.

Edited by IAJO on Friday 9th November 12:01

[Dan Trent]

Papa Hotel said:

I'm not sure which of you is ultimately in charge of what gets published, but would you care to comment on why anyone thought this was A Good Idea?

That'll be me!

Before I do - and just to reiterate an earlier point I made - we have a 'straight' roadtest based on Dom's time (and considerable mileage!) with the car coming too so hang fire for that if you're wanting the more conventional roadtest impressions.

But in response to your main point Dom is a respected fieldsports AND motoring journalist with a great deal of experience in both. A bloodthirsty motoring hack handed a rifle/shotgun/fishing rod and told to go and kill something for the hell of it he is not.

And I realise the subject of hunting is not one that's going to appeal to everyone and I respect the views of anyone who finds it distasteful. But there was never any attempt to hide this element of the story and there is the choice in whether or not to read it.

Why did we run it? Mainly because it combined Dom's twin areas of expertise in a very unusual fashion in a way I thought would make an interesting and entertaining feature. 'Shooting brake' is a term applied to cars of this type and has been for many years but there aren't many folk who could assess its abilities in both regards and I thought it an interesting and unusual story. Anyone could do a straight roadtest of the FF, or take it to a track and get some sideways photos or whatever, but to my mind the ultimate PH barometer of a car's worth is to test whether or not it's fit for purpose. And this was an unusual opportunity to do just that.

As I said to to LongLiveTazio, I'm sorry it wasn't to your tastes and hopefully Dom's straight review of the car itself will be. That's scheduled to go live on Monday.

By all means debate the issues but let's keep it civilised and constructive, eh?

Cheers,

Dan

Edited by Dan Trent on Friday 9th November 12:18

[lankybob]

Well I enjoyed the article. As for those who say it was not about the car, it has been said already that there is another article about the car coming.
Complaining that animals were shot? Hunting happens, get over it. It isn't as though these are rare species.

[Cyrus1971]

This is a road trip story and a fine one too. I certainly see a place for it on PH. For people who can't see the association between cars and life perhaps they should jog on. They are related. PH should have variety. PH has never been a list of performance stats and car reviews. If you want a pure car write up on the FF there are a tonne all over the internet. This shows a fine British product in a fine Italian one.

[Hellbound]

Agrispeed said:

I really enjoy Fieldsports britian - some very enthusiastic fellows on there, and something I'm quite passionate about.

I thought this was very well done when I watched it the other day, with a good mixture of both and a fairly decent presenter. Bear in mind its supposed to be a thing about a car for people who are more interested in field sports.

A good program and good to see it getting bigger audiences.

A shame to see the uneducated and general antis are missing the point of this though - please find out about why things are done before you comment. Find out about the situation first please. The countryside is not such a well balanced atmosphere naturally, some animals have to be controlled, or they would spiral out of control and damage others, a good example of this is badgers, but that is another thread...

Hi, interesting point of view. I understand why someone would be passionate about the countryside, I understand why someone would like to enjoy our wildlife and get outdoors. I also understand why bigger animals are fascinating to watch and learn about in their natural habitat.

But what I don't understand is what exactly is it about sitting there, watching a stag quietly eating, and then all of a sudden raising your rifle and firing a bullet at it. What is it, in those brief moments, that's so enjoyable? Is it the power? Is it the feeling of knowing you have dominion over such animals?

As for the 'controlling the ecosystem' remark. I understand the logic behind that. BUT what I don't understand is why on earth would do people turn it into a lifestyle and a sport. Surely it should be no more than a scientific and ecological concern which the government should just deal with without getting the general population involved.

I guess I'm ignoring historical context here, as well as the hunting/outdoor industry which clearly finds the whole thing lucrative.

As an aside, I've traveled in parts of the world where shooting is actually a real necessity, both for food and protection. A very different matter I think you'll agree.

[Papa Hotel]

Dan Trent said:

That'll be me!

Before I do - and just to reiterate an earlier point I made - we have a 'straight' roadtest based on Dom's time (and considerable mileage!) with the car coming too so hang fire for that if you're wanting the more conventional roadtest impressions.

But in response to your main point Dom is a respected fieldsports AND motoring journalist with a great deal of experience in both. A bloodthirsty motoring hack handed a rifle/shotgun/fishing rod and told to go and kill something for the hell of it he is not.

And I realise the subject of hunting is not one that's going to appeal to everyone and I respect the views of anyone who finds it distasteful. But there was never any attempt to hide this element of the story and there is the choice in whether or not to read it.

Why did we run it? Mainly because it combined Dom's twin areas of expertise in a very unusual fashion in a way nobody else could do. 'Shooting brake' is a term applied to cars of this type and has been for many years but there aren't many folk who could assess its abilities in both regards and I thought it an interesting and unusual story. Anyone could do a straight road test of the FF, or take it to a track and get some sideways photos or whatever, but to my mind the ultimate PH barometer of a car's worth is to test whether or not it's fit for purpose. And this was an unusual opportunity to do just that.

As I said to to LongLiveTazio, I'm sorry it wasn't to your tastes and hopefully Dom's straight review of the car itself will be. That's scheduled to go live on Monday.

By all means debate the issues but let's keep it civilised and constructive, eh?

Cheers,

Dan

I just don't believe the crossover was necessary. Like I said, I shoot, so I'm not some bleeding heart sitting here weeping over a dead stag. I believe there's a time and place for every type of journalism but it really doesn't sit well that this shoot (incorrectly implemented it seems!) was so awkwardly shoe-horned into a non-review of a Ferrari. If I want to read about shooting (I don't) then I'll pick up a copy of Shooting Times. If I want to read a good review of Ferrari's latest, I'll look at somewhere like PistonHeads... that was not a good review, it was a contrived, poorly written place-holder on a quiet day. This is the civilised and constructive version of my feedback.

[LongLiveTazio]

I've put my Barbour jacket on for this post so I am now qualified to have an opinion about the countryside:

I'm quite sure that the herds of deer that are terrorising the terribly valuable flowers will have been kept as part of the stately home's estate for sporting purposes. Which is why they have a gamekeeper and this is all well and good. However, don't try and pretend that shooting them is for some sort of altruistic purpose as part of keeping the ecological balance in tune. What happened in this article is that your stereotypical townie folk will come up with some kind of quasi-moral nonsense for why it was 'necessary' for them to take part as this will make it sound more socially responsible than simply saying: 'Shooting an animal was a novel experience and I enjoyed it'.

[Galileo]

Pistonheads; being bigger dicks than TopGear Matters.

[Blackpuddin]

Cyrus1971 said:

This is a road trip story and a fine one too. I certainly see a place for it on PH. For people who can't see the association between cars and life perhaps they should jog on. They are related. PH should have variety. PH has never been a list of performance stats and car reviews. If you want a pure car write up on the FF there are a tonne all over the internet. This shows a fine British product in a fine Italian one.

What he said.

[MrFrodo]

lankybob said:

Well I enjoyed the article. As for those who say it was not about the car, it has been said already that there is another article about the car coming.
Complaining that animals were shot? Hunting happens, get over it. It isn't as though these are rare species.

[Hellbound]

lankybob said:

Well I enjoyed the article. As for those who say it was not about the car, it has been said already that there is another article about the car coming.
Complaining that animals were shot? Hunting happens, get over it. It isn't as though these are rare species.

I think people generally don't have a problem with hunting for actual food or another equally justifiable reason. It's hunting for mere sport that's strange. Mostly because it requires the hunter to be psychologically flawed.

I liken it to grown men who feel the need to go out on a Saturday night and fight another grown man. Some clearly give in to primeval urges which they apparently need satiating on a regular basis.

[tommy vercetti]

Galileo said:

Pistonheads; being bigger dicks than TopGear Matters.

Calm down

[LuS1fer]

lankybob said:

Well I enjoyed the article. As for those who say it was not about the car, it has been said already that there is another article about the car coming.
Complaining that animals were shot? Hunting happens, get over it. It isn't as though these are rare species.

Humans aren't rare either so that must make it acceptable to shoot them?

Let's imagine a scenario where the stag is winged and when the hunter approaches, it gets up and gores him to death.
In human law, that is reasonable self-defence. In animal terms, it is a killer stag and simply underlines how dangerous they are.

I'm all for "sport" between equals - I'm happy to watch you wrestle a bear, for example, where the bear has the upper paw - because that is perfectly acceptable to me as it keeps the dangerous killer human population down.

[Dan Trent]

Papa Hotel said:

If I want to read about shooting (I don't) then I'll pick up a copy of Shooting Times. If I want to read a good review of Ferrari's latest, I'll look at somewhere like PistonHeads... that was not a good review

And that's absolutely fine. I'm truly sorry you didn't like it but I guess we're not going to please everyone with every story and I appreciate you keeping the debate constructive.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. And, again, I hope the Driven piece is more to your taste.

Cheers,

Dan

Edited by Dan Trent on Friday 9th November 12:25

[Papa Hotel]

Dan Trent said:

And that's absolutely fine. I'm truly sorry you didn't like it but I guess we're not going to please everyone with every story and I appreciate you keeping the debate constructive.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. And, again, I hope the Driven piece is more to your taste.

Cheers,

Dan

Just as an aside, Garlick et al have their positions under their usernames over there <---

It'd be nice to be able to target you too, you need to be more visible.

[Hellbound]

LongLiveTazio said:

I've put my Barbour jacket on for this post so I am now qualified to have an opinion about the countryside:

I'm quite sure that the herds of deer that are terrorising the terribly valuable flowers will have been kept as part of the stately home's estate for sporting purposes. Which is why they have a gamekeeper and this is all well and good. However, don't try and pretend that shooting them is for some sort of altruistic purpose as part of keeping the ecological balance in tune. What happened in this article is that your stereotypical townie folk will come up with some kind of quasi-moral nonsense for why it was 'necessary' for them to take part as this will make it sound more socially responsible than simply saying: 'Shooting an animal was a novel experience and I enjoyed it'.

So true. Just be honest with your hunting pass time/hobby right? Killing an animal turns you on. It gets the old blood pumping and gives you a buzz. Some people kill kittens or kick dogs in the face. It's sort of like when that woman dropped that cat into a wheelie bin. That was her 'hunt'. She owned that animal and had complete control over it. The only difference is you guys pull the trigger on an apparently dumb animal and you get to keep some antlers.

Therein lies your novel experience. It's enjoyable to kill things.

You'll never see the alien in Predator come up with nonsense like 'population control'. Give me a break and get a backbone.

[SarGara]

Hellbound said:

As for the 'controlling the ecosystem' remark. I understand the logic behind that. BUT what I don't understand is why on earth would do people turn it into a lifestyle and a sport. Surely it should be no more than a scientific and ecological concern which the government should just deal with without getting the general population involved.

This. A tree surgeon 'controls the ecosystem' but its hardly a sport/lifestyle?

[carinaman]

The presenter came across a bit like the 'Isn't Everything great' Paul Whitehouse character.

[TonyHetherington]

Well, this article has been received well!

I enjoyed it.

It was certainly different, and added a completely different slant to the car. Not your usual "this is how sideways I can get it", and I liked that twist on it.

I have only one criticism; not a single picture of the interior, which in this context of "useable shooting brake" is key to me. Having said that, I see magazines do it all the time; how often do they describe or point out the wheels, only to not have a static shot actually showing them?

Nevertheless, I enjoyed this break from the norm and welcome similarly out-there articles.

[Guvernator]

Firstly I'd like to say I have no problem with the hunting parts, I eat meat after all so I think it would be a bit hypocritical of me, however my thoughts on the article are thus.

Yes I know PH isn't like other car related media and does try to do somethings a little differently from time to time but I don't think it's quite worked on this occasion. Firstly the fact that the article isn't very well written doesn't help, especially as it's meant to be from a professional journalist, I just don't think it flows very well.

Secondly as I mentioned in my previous post, not enough was written about the car. This is PH, not Countryfile and the article should have been 70% about the car and 30% about the hunting\shooting rather than the other way round.

I know there is another article forthcoming but perhaps instead of splitting the two articles, they could have been combined into one bigger piece which might have balanced out the car\hunting ratio a little better. As it stands this article seems a little incongruous and while I admire the effort to do something a little different, I think personally for me this experiment has failed.