RE: Topless Golf R, fast Beetle GSR
Discussion
pSyCoSiS said:
£38k+ for a front wheel drive Golf?!! fk THAT!
What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!
FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
What the fk is wrong with you. What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!
FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?
Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.
Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.
- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options
So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
aka_kerrly said:
What the fk is wrong with you.
Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?
Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.
Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.
- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options
So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
I think the biggest beef here is the Golf's price is at odds with VAG's corporate hierarchy. I'd expect an Audi A3 convertible to cost £35K, but not a Golf.Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?
Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.
Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.
- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options
So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
pSyCoSiS said:
buckline said:
A hair's breadth away from £40k for a Golf is completely insane. I am spec'ing a M135 at the moment and even when feeling flush I struggle to get to that sort of money. When VW get around to moving their game on to matching the M135 it'll be 50k plus.
VW will NEVER get around to moving their game on the level of the equivalent BMW.Over-priced tat is what they are. I'm not saying they are necessarily bad cars, but, the money they command is just stupid. I mean, they're not exaclty going to set the world on fire are they?
The new S3 details are out however, and it looks equally good value and a performance match for the M135i.
VW themselves never go for headline performance figures, This has been the case for decades. they now leave that to Audi.
LuS1fer said:
Coldfuse said:
Is it just me or is the new bettle evolving closer and closer to the 911?
38k for a golf... lol
I suspect that is their aim, a pseudo-911 for people who can't afford one, hence the turbo. Personally, I think they're on a hiding to nothing because the retro inspiration was so utilitarian. At least the Mini had a Cooper S variant so could pull it off. the best the old Beetle managed was a 1600cc slightly less slow engine.38k for a golf... lol
aka_kerrly said:
pSyCoSiS said:
£38k+ for a front wheel drive Golf?!! fk THAT!
What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!
FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
What the fk is wrong with you. What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!
FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?
Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.
Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.
- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options
So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.
This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.
For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.
Nice pic for you:
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
Yep, I have spotted that forum trend but to be honest, I'm not sure the car's dynamics are the main sticking point here, but rather "yet another overpriced Golf".
Don't get me wrong, I've been a avid VW fan for 2 decades but even I can see they are now getting too big for their boots. Gone are the days of innovation (first decent 16v engine, G60 supercharger, VR6 engine) and nice styling (Corrado, MK1 Scirocco, MK1/MK2 GTI). It seems all VAG are focussed on now is global domination and rattling off as many niche blobs as possible.
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.
who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"
BoostMonkey said:
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.
This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.
For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.
Nice pic for you:
I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?
Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.
Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....
400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.
My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
aka_kerrly said:
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.
who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"
I think its fair to say that VAG have been getting away with charging silly list prices for so long as most people PCP the cars so its just a figure in a calculation these days. What i will say is this, people are starting to get wise to the 'cars £25k, the air inside is another £4k approach' that VAG seem to adopt and their bubble will soon burst.
c63mof said:
FisiP1 said:
The new S3 details are out however, and it looks equally good value and a performance match for the M135i.
Really?£3k min over the M135i, 20bhp down and I would bet my house on it not being as good to drive.
As for the power output, the M135i weighs 100kg more, and the S3 has four wheel drive traction, it'll at least match it in relevant acceleration figures. The S3 has a slightly better power/weight if you really care about this kind of pub boasting rubbish.
There's also the looks element, and while the S3 might not set many peoples worlds on fire, it won't permanently blind them either.
Edited by FisiP1 on Friday 8th February 12:57
SuperchargedVR6 said:
BoostMonkey said:
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.
This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.
For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.
Nice pic for you:
I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?
Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.
Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....
400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.
My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
aka_kerrly said:
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.
who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.
I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"
Personally speaking I think nearly £40K for a Golf convertible is ludicrous, even for the R version, however I work in the oil & gas industry in Aberdeen and I know plenty of wealthy individuals who buy cars like this as every day motors (for themselves or their partners) while the sports cars are kept at home in the garage.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Not the same BoostMonkey from the Corrado forum are you?
I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?
Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.
Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....
400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.
My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
Nope never owned a Corrado sorry. I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?
Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.
Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....
400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.
My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
I would not want to be deploying all the power at the start of the turn (slow in fast out and all that) but halfway around the bend when you unwind the steering angle (if too much lock it can wash out a little, but that more due to the driver), it just grips and goes with no tramp or issue.
Torque is limited in 1st and 2nd to protect the gearbox and clutch though by around 100NM, but still 400NM.
But then again you should not really need to use those gears on track.
Being driven will all dynamics off and only ABS still active I can tell you I had to my knowledge no fancy computer trickery active, certainly nothing was kicking into to shuffle power, on one lap I did have the systems turned on an at one point it did kick in and that was only to dull the power slightly.
Modern chassis dynamics have come along way, if your around Donington on 29th March I would be more than happy to show you.
Edited by BoostMonkey on Friday 8th February 12:56
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