RE: Topless Golf R, fast Beetle GSR

RE: Topless Golf R, fast Beetle GSR

Author
Discussion

c63mof

2 posts

133 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
So £38k for a Golf....

Audi TTS Roadster = £38k
Audi RS3 = £39k
New Audi S3 = £33k
Audi S4 = £38k
BMW M135i = £30k
BMW 335i = £38k
New Porsche Boxster = £38k
Mercedes C350 Coupe (306bhp) = £38k

I'm sure I could find more...

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
BBS-LM said:
That beetle really has turned into a disaster of a car. rofl

Personally I think it looks great. I think the current Beetle is one of the best penned cars on sale at the moment (mass market).

The yellow doesn't alter that. A bit pricey, but great looking IMO.

Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Friday 8th February 2013
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sagarich said:
Who on earth is going to pay that much for a VW R cab? That's more than a base Boxster!!!
I had to check the figures but Jesus jizz-blasting Christ, you're right!

37,589.00 for the 981 Boxster
38,770.00 for the Golf R Ragtop

Amazing.

BBS-LM

3,972 posts

223 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all

aka_kerrly

12,416 posts

209 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
pSyCoSiS said:
£38k+ for a front wheel drive Golf?!! fk THAT!

What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!

FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
What the fk is wrong with you.

Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?

Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.

Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.

- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options

So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.



scotty_917

1,034 posts

221 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.

I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
I understand your point...but again, drive it 1st before you pass judgement. It may well be a pup, but too many people on this forum have opinions of some cars, without actually getting behind the wheel...to experience it for themselves...not what they read elsewhere...and jump on a bandwagon...

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
What the fk is wrong with you.

Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?

Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.

Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.

- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options

So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
I think the biggest beef here is the Golf's price is at odds with VAG's corporate hierarchy. I'd expect an Audi A3 convertible to cost £35K, but not a Golf.



FisiP1

1,279 posts

152 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
pSyCoSiS said:
buckline said:
A hair's breadth away from £40k for a Golf is completely insane. I am spec'ing a M135 at the moment and even when feeling flush I struggle to get to that sort of money. When VW get around to moving their game on to matching the M135 it'll be 50k plus. silly
VW will NEVER get around to moving their game on the level of the equivalent BMW.

Over-priced tat is what they are. I'm not saying they are necessarily bad cars, but, the money they command is just stupid. I mean, they're not exaclty going to set the world on fire are they?
Rubbish, the Mk7 Golf R hasn't been released yet, that's the M135i 'competitor'.

The new S3 details are out however, and it looks equally good value and a performance match for the M135i.

VW themselves never go for headline performance figures, This has been the case for decades. they now leave that to Audi.

Coldfuse

518 posts

193 months

Friday 8th February 2013
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LuS1fer said:
Coldfuse said:
Is it just me or is the new bettle evolving closer and closer to the 911?

38k for a golf... lol
I suspect that is their aim, a pseudo-911 for people who can't afford one, hence the turbo. Personally, I think they're on a hiding to nothing because the retro inspiration was so utilitarian. At least the Mini had a Cooper S variant so could pull it off. the best the old Beetle managed was a 1600cc slightly less slow engine.
If i had to pick from those two cars, i'd choose the beetle. At least nowadays it looks like its actually grown up. The golf just looks like they have put some "R" stuff on a normal Cab (and not the best bits either, 4x4 for example...).

c63mof

2 posts

133 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
[quote=FisiP1]


The new S3 details are out however, and it looks equally good value and a performance match for the M135i.

quote]

Really?

£3k min over the M135i, 20bhp down and I would bet my house on it not being as good to drive.

Richard-G

1,669 posts

174 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
pSyCoSiS said:
£38k+ for a front wheel drive Golf?!! fk THAT!

What sort of a toss pot would actually spend that money on a new one, when there are SO MANY better options out there?!

FFS, what the hell is this world coming to!
What the fk is wrong with you.

Why would you go as far as calling the people who choose to spend THEIR money on something THEY want a toss port and why the hell does it upset you so much?

Seriously people this is getting incredibly boring now.

Aside from the BMW 1 series convertible, what other cabriolets are available at the moment that can offer 4 seats that aren't part of the VAG group.

- Peugeot 308 cc - top of the range model £27k before any options for a 160hp TDI
- Mercedes E Class - from £37k
- Lexus IS250C - from £35k
- Renault megane - £24k for 140hp TDI before options
- Volvo C70 - from £32k for a 150hp TDI > £39k for a T5 (230hp)
- Mini Convertible - £16k for £25k JCW edition + options

So while the Golf is by no means cheap it doesn't have a price tag beyond that of a similar powered Volvo or Lexus.
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.

who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.


BoostMonkey

569 posts

184 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.

I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
I understand your point...but again, drive it 1st before you pass judgement. It may well be a pup, but too many people on this forum have opinions of some cars, without actually getting behind the wheel...to experience it for themselves...not what they read elsewhere...and jump on a bandwagon...
Exactly well put Scotty, as a driver of a 400bhp Focus RS, any one at Oulton Park on Wednesday can testify to the fact that the car has no problem putting the power down in the wet/dry, and those that I went with to the Isle of Man last year can confirm its does it on your typical british A, B & C road.

So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.

This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.

For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.

Nice pic for you:


SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.

I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
I understand your point...but again, drive it 1st before you pass judgement. It may well be a pup, but too many people on this forum have opinions of some cars, without actually getting behind the wheel...to experience it for themselves...not what they read elsewhere...and jump on a bandwagon...
Sorry, I have zero interest in a Golf rag top. I was merely discussing powerful FWD in general smile

Yep, I have spotted that forum trend but to be honest, I'm not sure the car's dynamics are the main sticking point here, but rather "yet another overpriced Golf".

Don't get me wrong, I've been a avid VW fan for 2 decades but even I can see they are now getting too big for their boots. Gone are the days of innovation (first decent 16v engine, G60 supercharger, VR6 engine) and nice styling (Corrado, MK1 Scirocco, MK1/MK2 GTI). It seems all VAG are focussed on now is global domination and rattling off as many niche blobs as possible.


aka_kerrly

12,416 posts

209 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.

who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.

I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.

I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"


SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
BoostMonkey said:
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.

I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
I understand your point...but again, drive it 1st before you pass judgement. It may well be a pup, but too many people on this forum have opinions of some cars, without actually getting behind the wheel...to experience it for themselves...not what they read elsewhere...and jump on a bandwagon...
Exactly well put Scotty, as a driver of a 400bhp Focus RS, any one at Oulton Park on Wednesday can testify to the fact that the car has no problem putting the power down in the wet/dry, and those that I went with to the Isle of Man last year can confirm its does it on your typical british A, B & C road.

So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.

This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.

For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.

Nice pic for you:
Not the same BoostMonkey from the Corrado forum are you? smile

I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?

Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.

Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....

400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.

My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.


Richard-G

1,669 posts

174 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.

who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.

I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.

I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"
you do get the opposite though, i think people on here were genuinely shcoked at the value of a 135m, i was shocked at the value of the new focus ST and i think the deals merc are pumping out on cars like the SLK diesel for £250 a month are absolutely amazing value.

I think its fair to say that VAG have been getting away with charging silly list prices for so long as most people PCP the cars so its just a figure in a calculation these days. What i will say is this, people are starting to get wise to the 'cars £25k, the air inside is another £4k approach' that VAG seem to adopt and their bubble will soon burst.

FisiP1

1,279 posts

152 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
c63mof said:
FisiP1 said:
The new S3 details are out however, and it looks equally good value and a performance match for the M135i.
Really?

£3k min over the M135i, 20bhp down and I would bet my house on it not being as good to drive.
'3k min' is unlikely, that would put it at £33,500, and the DSG version at TTS prices. Yet to be confirmed but expect dealers to close the gap to the competition(aka the BMW) should Audi do the unexpected and price it higher than rumored, we'll find out. On the continent, the S3 actually undercuts the M135i.

As for the power output, the M135i weighs 100kg more, and the S3 has four wheel drive traction, it'll at least match it in relevant acceleration figures. The S3 has a slightly better power/weight if you really care about this kind of pub boasting rubbish.

There's also the looks element, and while the S3 might not set many peoples worlds on fire, it won't permanently blind them either.



Edited by FisiP1 on Friday 8th February 12:57

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
BoostMonkey said:
scotty_917 said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
scotty_917 said:
Not that I'm interested in buying one...but hey, 260-330bhp through the front wheels alone, is not an engineering problem anymore...read Megane, Focus, etc...handling, lack of torque steer should be good...
Only because you're not getting that 330hp all of time, because of modern nanny state engine mapping. It's very different to old school hot hatches where you get all your beans served up in one heap and nothing but your right foot to regulate wheelspin.

I think there was a big discussion on here about torque steer last year, but even RWD cars can torque steer!
I understand your point...but again, drive it 1st before you pass judgement. It may well be a pup, but too many people on this forum have opinions of some cars, without actually getting behind the wheel...to experience it for themselves...not what they read elsewhere...and jump on a bandwagon...
Exactly well put Scotty, as a driver of a 400bhp Focus RS, any one at Oulton Park on Wednesday can testify to the fact that the car has no problem putting the power down in the wet/dry, and those that I went with to the Isle of Man last year can confirm its does it on your typical british A, B & C road.

So dont write off a FWD car just because what you percive to be high power figuers.

This Golf R could be a brilliant car to drive.

For the record I think the Golf R rag is plain silly, and work max £26K and even then I would not buy it.

Nice pic for you:
Not the same BoostMonkey from the Corrado forum are you? smile

I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?

Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.

Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....

400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.

My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
This is very true. With the modern electronics HP (well torque) is limited under certain conditions and most often in lower gears. In fact with these high powered fwd turbo cars I'm not convinced many of them actually make the claim HP until at least 3rd gear and likely illegal speeds.

Pablo16v

2,072 posts

196 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
Richard-G said:
calling someone a tosser is harsh and i agree with you but 38k for base, plus say another 2k for options and that car is nudging 40k. That's not right due to the fact your not getting 38k's worth of car. Your getting a car that is being sold to you for what VAG believe it is worth, not the cost of the nuts, bots, metals and plastics.

who in their right mind would have one of these over an A5 Cab or even an E93? don't tell me its performance cus no one who wants a performance car is going to spend 40k in a VW showroom and walk out with an automatic fwd golf convertible. You spend 40k on a 4 seater convertible to carry your haircut around in and to show off and sadly for the golf R convertible their are much better badges at that price.

I agree, at no point did I say I think the Golf R cabriolet is good value.

I just find it is getting a bit tedious now and can't recall a thread where everyone starts asking "who the fk spends £40k on a Volvo cabriolet" or "why have I not seen a single Lexus IS250 Cabriolet" or "who the fk spends £25k on a Peugeot that wont be worth £10k after a couple of years!"
Yup, it's definitely getting tedious now. The obvious thing to say would be "just ignore them, they'll soon go away" but unfortunately I don't think they will.

Personally speaking I think nearly £40K for a Golf convertible is ludicrous, even for the R version, however I work in the oil & gas industry in Aberdeen and I know plenty of wealthy individuals who buy cars like this as every day motors (for themselves or their partners) while the sports cars are kept at home in the garage.

BoostMonkey

569 posts

184 months

Friday 8th February 2013
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Not the same BoostMonkey from the Corrado forum are you? smile

I agree, the Focii have been good at putting power down, thanks to some chunky work put into that by Ford. The revo knuckle or some such IIRC?

Thing is though, I'm not trying to cause an FWD argument, but you're not deploying all of your 400hp into a turn are you? The ECU will be looking at yaw angle, steering angle, requested throttle angle, road speed and wheel slip to govern the torque which is useable for any given circumstance.

Trust me, coming from a 400hp Corrado VR6 turbo with none of that clever ECU mapping and just a Quaife ATB to try and put some torque down, there is no way on earth I could go into a bend with anything more than half throttle. I know the Focus has a better chassis, but even so....

400hp in a straight line - a bit of tugging on the steering wheel, otherwise, yep, no problem.

My only minor gripe with powerful FWD owners is them claiming the power can always be deployed without any drama, because in my experience it's not true. I was just making the point that it's the car's brain that is largely responsible for keeping you on the tarmac, not some miraculous grip conjured up by a clever FWD chassis.
Nope never owned a Corrado sorry.

I would not want to be deploying all the power at the start of the turn (slow in fast out and all that) but halfway around the bend when you unwind the steering angle (if too much lock it can wash out a little, but that more due to the driver), it just grips and goes with no tramp or issue.

Torque is limited in 1st and 2nd to protect the gearbox and clutch though by around 100NM, but still 400NM.
But then again you should not really need to use those gears on track.

Being driven will all dynamics off and only ABS still active I can tell you I had to my knowledge no fancy computer trickery active, certainly nothing was kicking into to shuffle power, on one lap I did have the systems turned on an at one point it did kick in and that was only to dull the power slightly.

Modern chassis dynamics have come along way, if your around Donington on 29th March I would be more than happy to show you.


Edited by BoostMonkey on Friday 8th February 12:56