SLEEPERS! Anyone have a street sleeper here?
Discussion
And the circle begins again 
I LOVE TheConverted’s 205 I think it’s wicked, read his whole thread a few weeks back. But to me, growing up with many friends having standard/Mi16/GTI6 powered 205s they’re not really a slow car even by todays standards. Yeah, a standard 1.9 in a straight line maybe is a bit wheezy but they handle so brilliantly, I think as a whole package they still hold their own.
Lovely lovely lovely car, but to me it isn’t a sleeper. Maybe to joe public who just sees a “s
tty old peugeot” but anyone with even the remotest interest in cars sees a 205 GTI as a quick, and cool hot hatch.
Maybe that’s another point to a sleeper… they’re not supposed to be cool?
And to add… that guy 30/40 pages back with the S6. Not in a million years was it a sleeper.
I LOVE TheConverted’s 205 I think it’s wicked, read his whole thread a few weeks back. But to me, growing up with many friends having standard/Mi16/GTI6 powered 205s they’re not really a slow car even by todays standards. Yeah, a standard 1.9 in a straight line maybe is a bit wheezy but they handle so brilliantly, I think as a whole package they still hold their own.
Lovely lovely lovely car, but to me it isn’t a sleeper. Maybe to joe public who just sees a “s
tty old peugeot” but anyone with even the remotest interest in cars sees a 205 GTI as a quick, and cool hot hatch. Maybe that’s another point to a sleeper… they’re not supposed to be cool?
And to add… that guy 30/40 pages back with the S6. Not in a million years was it a sleeper.
Pommy said:
A sleeper should be a car that is known to be not fast, appears to look like the normal version yet be hiding a level of speed someone familiar with the normal car would not expect.
For crying out loud. If this is the forum consensus can someone PLEASE for the love of God make this (or any other like) post a sticky for the top of each new page?!Fermit said:
Pommy said:
A sleeper should be a car that is known to be not fast, appears to look like the normal version yet be hiding a level of speed someone familiar with the normal car would not expect.
For crying out loud. If this is the forum consensus can someone PLEASE for the love of God make this (or any other like) post a sticky for the top of each new page?!Take that 205; for me that is "not fast". It was fast for a supermini in its day, 8.2s to 100kph, which is straight line performance akin to an XR3i or a Fiat Uno Turbo. But, that's a diesel hatchback in povvo spec these days.
However, I also wouldn't think of the 205 with 250bhp as a sleeper. I think a sleeper needs to be a bit mental rather than being a little bit quicker than standard. So it needs about 400+ before I'd call it a sleeper. Enough power to make it move in a way that makes you exclaim rude words when it goes.
donkmeister said:
Fermit said:
Pommy said:
A sleeper should be a car that is known to be not fast, appears to look like the normal version yet be hiding a level of speed someone familiar with the normal car would not expect.
For crying out loud. If this is the forum consensus can someone PLEASE for the love of God make this (or any other like) post a sticky for the top of each new page?!Take that 205; for me that is "not fast". It was fast for a supermini in its day, 8.2s to 100kph, which is straight line performance akin to an XR3i or a Fiat Uno Turbo. But, that's a diesel hatchback in povvo spec these days.
However, I also wouldn't think of the 205 with 250bhp as a sleeper. I think a sleeper needs to be a bit mental rather than being a little bit quicker than standard. So it needs about 400+ before I'd call it a sleeper. Enough power to make it move in a way that makes you exclaim rude words when it goes.
A F83 M4 is 240 bhp per tonne that's 444 bhp car. My car conservatively is 268bhp per tonne.
PS I'm not saying my car's a sleeper. Personally I'm not sure it is however. Others have said it is to me and I catch people out in it quite often and thats the definition of a sleeper to me so I'm at best conflicted
Pommy said:
This.
Frankly, using a normal persons opinion to determine what is a sleeper is stupid as they wouldn't know what a sleeper is, nor could they judge if a normal car is slow or fast.
I see it the other way, a sleeper is something that catches you out. As pistonheads we have a different understanding. Of what could be or is fast. my car as an example, we see the ques. the exhaust, the bonnet catches and the intercooler behind the bumper. Where as your average Joe. Sees a 30+ year old Peugeot . Maybe they had one. And they 'know' there car is 'far quicker' it's likely the fastest car they have owned and maybe ever been in. Frankly, using a normal persons opinion to determine what is a sleeper is stupid as they wouldn't know what a sleeper is, nor could they judge if a normal car is slow or fast.
Again not saying my car is a sleeper it's an interesting debate tho.
TheConverted said:
Interesting, I'm starting to see this abit more. People think 250bhp inst that much anymore, and in a world of 3/4/500 bhp cars being ten a penny. Is dosnt sound like much. People forget bhp per tonne and torque are far more relevant.
A F83 M4 is 240 bhp per tonne that's 444 bhp car. My car conservatively is 268bhp per tonne.
PS I'm not saying my car's a sleeper. Personally I'm not sure it is however. Others have said it is to me and I catch people out in it quite often and thats the definition of a sleeper to me so I'm at best conflicted
True - I was thinking 400+bhp in a ~1 tonne 205 would make it a sleeper. I have ~400bhp in a 2-tonne Lexus and it is a very different performance proposition. A F83 M4 is 240 bhp per tonne that's 444 bhp car. My car conservatively is 268bhp per tonne.
PS I'm not saying my car's a sleeper. Personally I'm not sure it is however. Others have said it is to me and I catch people out in it quite often and thats the definition of a sleeper to me so I'm at best conflicted
M.F.D said:
Anyone follow Stavtech? He is building MR2 roadsters now (with 20VT engines I'm sure) but this is his sleeper Corolla.
3SGTE from the Celica GT4/Mk2 MR2 Turbo. Traction was limited, I'm sure it was pulling on some expensive metal once on a roll....
Big yes for me, even with the alloys*, you would never think that car can do those numbers3SGTE from the Celica GT4/Mk2 MR2 Turbo. Traction was limited, I'm sure it was pulling on some expensive metal once on a roll....
- A set of steelies would give it the full 10/10 for me, with the alloys its still a reallly good 9/10
ajprice said:
Big yes for me, even with the alloys*, you would never think that car can do those numbers
Agreed. The G6 CYA plate also gives it away slightly but otherwise it's perfect. It even has the period correct National Trust stickers on the back - A set of steelies would give it the full 10/10 for me, with the alloys its still a reallly good 9/10
TheConverted said:
People forget bhp per tonne and torque are far more relevant.
It varies depending on situation. I’ve got 1 car with about 440bhp/t thanks to light weight more than power. Fires off the line well but gets done over by my others that are 500bhp but 2-3 times the weight from about 80mph up.
Brute power is usually far more helpful once rolling at a reasonable speed.
I have to admit that if I clocked the bonnet catches on the 205, I'd say bets are off - could be Mi16, turbo etc.
I would still laugh my ass off if a 205 was nailed to my GT3's bumper after a little motorway squirt or popping away from the lights towards a NSL etc.
And if a green Astra sailed past...
I would still laugh my ass off if a 205 was nailed to my GT3's bumper after a little motorway squirt or popping away from the lights towards a NSL etc.
And if a green Astra sailed past...
RB Will said:
braddo said:
I have to admit that if I clocked the bonnet catches on the 205, I'd say bets are off - could be Mi16, turbo etc.
I would still laugh my ass off if a 205 was nailed to my GT3's bumper after a little motorway squirt or popping away from the lights towards a NSL etc.
And if a green Astra sailed past...
If it was either of the ones in this thread it’s be getting your GT3 looked at I would still laugh my ass off if a 205 was nailed to my GT3's bumper after a little motorway squirt or popping away from the lights towards a NSL etc.
And if a green Astra sailed past...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGX_OORF6Qj/?hl=en
Gtom][url said:
quote=Fermit]Pommy said:
A sleeper should be a car that is known to be not fast, appears to look like the normal version yet be hiding a level of speed someone familiar with the normal car would not expect.
For crying out loud. If this is the forum consensus can someone PLEASE for the love of God make this (or any other like) post a sticky for the top of each new page?!Even the 2litre was quite grunty in its day.
If it’s true for the German stuff is it true for anything that had a halo model?
(I’d say sleeper, just asking the sleeper moderators how this would be viewed)
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