What cables to run in a new build?
Discussion
I'll be starting my self-build in the next few weeks and, although I cannot afford to put all the hardware in place straight away, I'd like to get the infrastructure done while it's cheap to do so.
I want to ensure that I have each room networked via a hub for Internet access. Is this Cat 5, 5e or Cat6?
I'd like to make sure I can add some form of intelligent mood lighting later. Do I simply have Cat 5 run to each light switch location and to each lighting source?
I'll be running speaker cables from my hub (where the AV Amp will be located) to ceiling speakers and areas where I might add speakers later on.
I'll run power and control cabling (Cat 5?) to the front wall for automated gates at some stage.
What else should I be looking at?
I want to ensure that I have each room networked via a hub for Internet access. Is this Cat 5, 5e or Cat6?
I'd like to make sure I can add some form of intelligent mood lighting later. Do I simply have Cat 5 run to each light switch location and to each lighting source?
I'll be running speaker cables from my hub (where the AV Amp will be located) to ceiling speakers and areas where I might add speakers later on.
I'll run power and control cabling (Cat 5?) to the front wall for automated gates at some stage.
What else should I be looking at?
garyhun said:
I'll be starting my self-build in the next few weeks and, although I cannot afford to put all the hardware in place straight away, I'd like to get the infrastructure done while it's cheap to do so.
I want to ensure that I have each room networked via a hub for Internet access. Is this Cat 5, 5e or Cat6?
I'd like to make sure I can add some form of intelligent mood lighting later. Do I simply have Cat 5 run to each light switch location and to each lighting source?
I'll be running speaker cables from my hub (where the AV Amp will be located) to ceiling speakers and areas where I might add speakers later on.
I'll run power and control cabling (Cat 5?) to the front wall for automated gates at some stage.
What else should I be looking at?
Advice I've been given is to terminate all cables centrally. Forget Cat5, the decision is with Cat5e vs 6. There is not much gain in Cat6 as Cat5e is plenty enough (up to 1gb) to support current and medium term requirements. It's also cheaper and easier to terminate. Cat6 will only support higher speeds over short distances and so in a large house you might not get any benefit at all.I want to ensure that I have each room networked via a hub for Internet access. Is this Cat 5, 5e or Cat6?
I'd like to make sure I can add some form of intelligent mood lighting later. Do I simply have Cat 5 run to each light switch location and to each lighting source?
I'll be running speaker cables from my hub (where the AV Amp will be located) to ceiling speakers and areas where I might add speakers later on.
I'll run power and control cabling (Cat 5?) to the front wall for automated gates at some stage.
What else should I be looking at?
I looked at mood lighting and have decided to ditch it in favour of Lutron Rania intelligent dimmers. Gives you the control without the automation and is plenty for what i need. The switches are expensive but thousands cheaper than a full automated deployment which might be great in a high end London/NYC apartment but is not required in rural Shropshire. Just my opinion.
If you must run cabling, you need to decide what you want to fit later as they all use different wiring. Lutron use thir own cable for instance and won't support Cat. You could of course retrofit a wireless solution like Rako in the future if automation is your thing.
Cat 5e and power to the gate will enable you to add cctv and automation later.
Don't forget coax, you might want power and coax in the shower for example
http://www.buycleverstuff.co.uk/7-black-waterproof...My standard installs and my evangelistic broadcasts at the Home Building and Renovating Show over the last weekend is as follows.
TV Points, 3 x CAt6 and 2 x Coax (wf100)
Data Points, 2x Cat6
Don't forget to hide data points around the house for a wifi booster, wardrobes, lofts, Kitchen plinth spaces are perfect.
2 x Cat5e or Cat6 if you have any spare and power for door entry & gate control.
Rako is a great retro fit lighting system if you can't / don't want to make the commitment up front to a central scene control system as it wires straight off a standard wiring scheme.
Hope that helps.
V.
TV Points, 3 x CAt6 and 2 x Coax (wf100)
Data Points, 2x Cat6
Don't forget to hide data points around the house for a wifi booster, wardrobes, lofts, Kitchen plinth spaces are perfect.
2 x Cat5e or Cat6 if you have any spare and power for door entry & gate control.
Rako is a great retro fit lighting system if you can't / don't want to make the commitment up front to a central scene control system as it wires straight off a standard wiring scheme.
Hope that helps.
V.
I've just wired my new build;
CAT6 everywhere - To my cost I found that HDMI over cat5e didn't work at 1080p at my last house, but would work fine over cat6 patch leads.
Make sure you get proper cat6 cable - which should be around £100 a box for 300M, cheap £30 boxes on ebay are made from copper coated aluminium (CCA) and are total garbage - and not actually rated at cat anything - very misleading. Buy at least two boxes of wire, so you pull a pair of cables through at a time.
Make sure ALL your back boxes are 47mm deep - standard 35mm boxes aren't deep enough for CAT6 or z-wave automation modules. This will involve channelling out the wall ~20mm on a standard dot and dab plaster board.
All of my lighting circuits are "home run" back to the central control room - but are wired conventionally to bus bars. For each room, each light circuit goes back to the wall switch (rather than linked up in the ceiling), then I run a suitable quantity of triple and earth back to central control room. All the outside lights are home run as well.
This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
"Normal" TV points have WF100 twin coax and twin cat6, although 3 would be better (HDMI extenders take two and all tellys are now "smart" and have lan socket too) All TV points are half way up the wall along with a double power socket. Again make sure you use good quality WF100 shotgun (twin) cable, not cheap cable like I did on a previous extension – which resulted in poor picture quality – and nothing I could do about it.
As mentioned, CAT6 high up a wall or in known locations in the ceiling for POE wireless access points.
In the living room, the entire back wall is actually a false 200mm deep wall. TV is mounted to the real wall and sits flush with the false wall. Have 6 x WF100 twins, 6 x 13Amp double sockets, 8x Cat6 and 50mm cable ducting back to control room for expansion.
The false wall allows me to hide the rats nest of wires and power adapters and just have the absolute minimum out on show. I was originally going to have it as a walk-in void which you accessed via a small door of the hallway.
Rear ceiling has provision for power, cat6 and ducting for projector, unfortunately I forgot that my living room is directly below my kid’s bedroom, so cinema equipment staying in another part of the house where I can have it as loud as I like – should of made my bedroom above the living room.
Major rooms also have cat6 going to the light switches - just in case i want to replace with a POE in-wall controller.
Have RG59+power “shotgun” cable for CCTV (analogue), speakers for automation announcements, Hard-wired alarm system which also feeds the automation system presence information.
Think about cabling or ducting near major entry points for entry systems, door locks and cameras.
Before the ground floor ceiling went up I ran ducting along the parallel beams back into the garage - which means i can fish cables to any location i want on the ground floor. The concrete slab also had ducting between key rooms.
I also drilled pilot "marker" holes into the first-floor floor, which serves to mark out key junction points should i need to access them in the future.
Control room had a larger void made along with a plywood wall, which makes attaching kit very easy:
All light circuits come back to a central box, I have 8 channel relay modules in there now controlling various circuits
CAT6 everywhere - To my cost I found that HDMI over cat5e didn't work at 1080p at my last house, but would work fine over cat6 patch leads.
Make sure you get proper cat6 cable - which should be around £100 a box for 300M, cheap £30 boxes on ebay are made from copper coated aluminium (CCA) and are total garbage - and not actually rated at cat anything - very misleading. Buy at least two boxes of wire, so you pull a pair of cables through at a time.
Make sure ALL your back boxes are 47mm deep - standard 35mm boxes aren't deep enough for CAT6 or z-wave automation modules. This will involve channelling out the wall ~20mm on a standard dot and dab plaster board.
All of my lighting circuits are "home run" back to the central control room - but are wired conventionally to bus bars. For each room, each light circuit goes back to the wall switch (rather than linked up in the ceiling), then I run a suitable quantity of triple and earth back to central control room. All the outside lights are home run as well.
This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
"Normal" TV points have WF100 twin coax and twin cat6, although 3 would be better (HDMI extenders take two and all tellys are now "smart" and have lan socket too) All TV points are half way up the wall along with a double power socket. Again make sure you use good quality WF100 shotgun (twin) cable, not cheap cable like I did on a previous extension – which resulted in poor picture quality – and nothing I could do about it.
As mentioned, CAT6 high up a wall or in known locations in the ceiling for POE wireless access points.
In the living room, the entire back wall is actually a false 200mm deep wall. TV is mounted to the real wall and sits flush with the false wall. Have 6 x WF100 twins, 6 x 13Amp double sockets, 8x Cat6 and 50mm cable ducting back to control room for expansion.
The false wall allows me to hide the rats nest of wires and power adapters and just have the absolute minimum out on show. I was originally going to have it as a walk-in void which you accessed via a small door of the hallway.
Rear ceiling has provision for power, cat6 and ducting for projector, unfortunately I forgot that my living room is directly below my kid’s bedroom, so cinema equipment staying in another part of the house where I can have it as loud as I like – should of made my bedroom above the living room.
Major rooms also have cat6 going to the light switches - just in case i want to replace with a POE in-wall controller.
Have RG59+power “shotgun” cable for CCTV (analogue), speakers for automation announcements, Hard-wired alarm system which also feeds the automation system presence information.
Think about cabling or ducting near major entry points for entry systems, door locks and cameras.
Before the ground floor ceiling went up I ran ducting along the parallel beams back into the garage - which means i can fish cables to any location i want on the ground floor. The concrete slab also had ducting between key rooms.
I also drilled pilot "marker" holes into the first-floor floor, which serves to mark out key junction points should i need to access them in the future.
Control room had a larger void made along with a plywood wall, which makes attaching kit very easy:
All light circuits come back to a central box, I have 8 channel relay modules in there now controlling various circuits
Eliot, or anyone else, can you please explain this part of your post:
As an example...let's say you have your bedroom with one ceiling light and 2 bedside lamps, one master wall switch and a light switch at each the side of the bed. How would that be wired?
I'm really trying to follow this but my poor brain aches!!
Eliot said:
All of my lighting circuits are "home run" back to the central control room - but are wired conventionally to bus bars. For each room, each light circuit goes back to the wall switch (rather than linked up in the ceiling), then I run a suitable quantity of triple and earth back to central control room. All the outside lights are home run as well.
This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
Are you saying that for each lighting circuit you have a run to the control room and a run to the wall switch? Exactly how many wires and what type do you have?This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
As an example...let's say you have your bedroom with one ceiling light and 2 bedside lamps, one master wall switch and a light switch at each the side of the bed. How would that be wired?
I'm really trying to follow this but my poor brain aches!!
garyhun said:
Are you saying that for each lighting circuit you have a run to the control room and a run to the wall switch? Exactly how many wires and what type do you have?
As an example...let's say you have your bedroom with one ceiling light and 2 bedside lamps, one master wall switch and a light switch at each the side of the bed. How would that be wired?
I'm really trying to follow this but my poor brain aches!!
No - the lights are run to the wall switch and then the wall switch is home run to the control panel.As an example...let's say you have your bedroom with one ceiling light and 2 bedside lamps, one master wall switch and a light switch at each the side of the bed. How would that be wired?
I'm really trying to follow this but my poor brain aches!!
If it was a single light, then it would be twin and earth(T&E) from the ceiling rose to the light switch, then T&E back to the control panel.
If there are two lights in a room, then each light is T&E to the wall switch, then I use tripple and earth (3&E) back to the control room.
For cases where there are more than two lights in a room, I just ran multiple 3&E cable to the control room, which was mainly Hall/Porch/Outside, Kitchen and Living room.
In the wall switches, they are wired conventially and in the control panel live goes to live and neutral is neutral. Should i want to automate something, I simply control it centrally and adjust the wiring in the wall switch.
I used the original architects drawings and annotated exactly how I wanted all the first fix wiring adding to the shell, along with a numbered list for every single electrical item describing what it was and how i wanted it wired.
It's quite frustrating as I enjoy writing this sort of stuff up on my website, but much of the detail around the security and automation (which is actually the cool bit) i cant just post all over the internet.
As I said and as toxic mentions, should i want in-wall controllers - i have pre-wired cat6 as the low voltage(or ethernet) control into some of the key rooms (kitchen, hall and living room)
OK - have read both posts and think I've got it.
In toxic's example everything goes to the control panel so the wall "switches" have to be controllers for the central control unit.
In Eliot's example, if its 1 or 2 lights you control it conventionally with a conventional switch (simple and cheap) BUT if you want to control multiple circuits/lights you use a programable switch/controller and have pre-wired to take both types of switch solution.
Have I got it?
In toxic's example everything goes to the control panel so the wall "switches" have to be controllers for the central control unit.
In Eliot's example, if its 1 or 2 lights you control it conventionally with a conventional switch (simple and cheap) BUT if you want to control multiple circuits/lights you use a programable switch/controller and have pre-wired to take both types of switch solution.
Have I got it?
My approach was to make it initially as conventional as possible to keep costs down during the build when i can least afford it. The wife doesn't want everything automated anyway - sometimes a simple on/off switch is all that is required.
I can create two-way light circuits with a normal twoway in the wall, paired up with a double pole relay back in the control room.
Cat6 was chosen as the LV control cable, as you seem to be able to run just about anything over cat6 - i dont have a particular lighting control system in mind yet.
So far I just added a 8 channel IO module to homeseer and use that to control simple on/off requirements which is a fraction of the cost of normal automation systems. It also has 8 Analogue input channels which i'm using for temperature and light level monitoring, which will start controlling the heating system soon.
In fact I may not actually bother with wall controllers, as everything is accessible via a smartphone.
i've just added water consumption monitoring accurate to the litre, so now i can add algorithims that will alert for water consumption when the house is unoccupied or overnight.
I can create two-way light circuits with a normal twoway in the wall, paired up with a double pole relay back in the control room.
Cat6 was chosen as the LV control cable, as you seem to be able to run just about anything over cat6 - i dont have a particular lighting control system in mind yet.
So far I just added a 8 channel IO module to homeseer and use that to control simple on/off requirements which is a fraction of the cost of normal automation systems. It also has 8 Analogue input channels which i'm using for temperature and light level monitoring, which will start controlling the heating system soon.
In fact I may not actually bother with wall controllers, as everything is accessible via a smartphone.
i've just added water consumption monitoring accurate to the litre, so now i can add algorithims that will alert for water consumption when the house is unoccupied or overnight.
4 years on, I'm guessing most of Eliot's post still holds true? (it's about the best post on this stuff I can find on the net)
Anything to add
I'm assuming no need for co-ax these days, but do you need HMDI instead?
Anything to add
I'm assuming no need for co-ax these days, but do you need HMDI instead?
eliot said:
I've just wired my new build;
CAT6 everywhere - To my cost I found that HDMI over cat5e didn't work at 1080p at my last house, but would work fine over cat6 patch leads.
Make sure you get proper cat6 cable - which should be around £100 a box for 300M, cheap £30 boxes on ebay are made from copper coated aluminium (CCA) and are total garbage - and not actually rated at cat anything - very misleading. Buy at least two boxes of wire, so you pull a pair of cables through at a time.
Make sure ALL your back boxes are 47mm deep - standard 35mm boxes aren't deep enough for CAT6 or z-wave automation modules. This will involve channelling out the wall ~20mm on a standard dot and dab plaster board.
All of my lighting circuits are "home run" back to the central control room - but are wired conventionally to bus bars. For each room, each light circuit goes back to the wall switch (rather than linked up in the ceiling), then I run a suitable quantity of triple and earth back to central control room. All the outside lights are home run as well.
This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
"Normal" TV points have WF100 twin coax and twin cat6, although 3 would be better (HDMI extenders take two and all tellys are now "smart" and have lan socket too) All TV points are half way up the wall along with a double power socket. Again make sure you use good quality WF100 shotgun (twin) cable, not cheap cable like I did on a previous extension – which resulted in poor picture quality – and nothing I could do about it.
As mentioned, CAT6 high up a wall or in known locations in the ceiling for POE wireless access points.
In the living room, the entire back wall is actually a false 200mm deep wall. TV is mounted to the real wall and sits flush with the false wall. Have 6 x WF100 twins, 6 x 13Amp double sockets, 8x Cat6 and 50mm cable ducting back to control room for expansion.
The false wall allows me to hide the rats nest of wires and power adapters and just have the absolute minimum out on show. I was originally going to have it as a walk-in void which you accessed via a small door of the hallway.
Rear ceiling has provision for power, cat6 and ducting for projector, unfortunately I forgot that my living room is directly below my kid’s bedroom, so cinema equipment staying in another part of the house where I can have it as loud as I like – should of made my bedroom above the living room.
Major rooms also have cat6 going to the light switches - just in case i want to replace with a POE in-wall controller.
Have RG59+power “shotgun” cable for CCTV (analogue), speakers for automation announcements, Hard-wired alarm system which also feeds the automation system presence information.
Think about cabling or ducting near major entry points for entry systems, door locks and cameras.
Before the ground floor ceiling went up I ran ducting along the parallel beams back into the garage - which means i can fish cables to any location i want on the ground floor. The concrete slab also had ducting between key rooms.
I also drilled pilot "marker" holes into the first-floor floor, which serves to mark out key junction points should i need to access them in the future.
Control room had a larger void made along with a plywood wall, which makes attaching kit very easy:
All light circuits come back to a central box, I have 8 channel relay modules in there now controlling various circuits
CAT6 everywhere - To my cost I found that HDMI over cat5e didn't work at 1080p at my last house, but would work fine over cat6 patch leads.
Make sure you get proper cat6 cable - which should be around £100 a box for 300M, cheap £30 boxes on ebay are made from copper coated aluminium (CCA) and are total garbage - and not actually rated at cat anything - very misleading. Buy at least two boxes of wire, so you pull a pair of cables through at a time.
Make sure ALL your back boxes are 47mm deep - standard 35mm boxes aren't deep enough for CAT6 or z-wave automation modules. This will involve channelling out the wall ~20mm on a standard dot and dab plaster board.
All of my lighting circuits are "home run" back to the central control room - but are wired conventionally to bus bars. For each room, each light circuit goes back to the wall switch (rather than linked up in the ceiling), then I run a suitable quantity of triple and earth back to central control room. All the outside lights are home run as well.
This way I have the best of three worlds: 1)Standard (read cheap) light switch 2)in-wall automation module 3)centralised control
"Normal" TV points have WF100 twin coax and twin cat6, although 3 would be better (HDMI extenders take two and all tellys are now "smart" and have lan socket too) All TV points are half way up the wall along with a double power socket. Again make sure you use good quality WF100 shotgun (twin) cable, not cheap cable like I did on a previous extension – which resulted in poor picture quality – and nothing I could do about it.
As mentioned, CAT6 high up a wall or in known locations in the ceiling for POE wireless access points.
In the living room, the entire back wall is actually a false 200mm deep wall. TV is mounted to the real wall and sits flush with the false wall. Have 6 x WF100 twins, 6 x 13Amp double sockets, 8x Cat6 and 50mm cable ducting back to control room for expansion.
The false wall allows me to hide the rats nest of wires and power adapters and just have the absolute minimum out on show. I was originally going to have it as a walk-in void which you accessed via a small door of the hallway.
Rear ceiling has provision for power, cat6 and ducting for projector, unfortunately I forgot that my living room is directly below my kid’s bedroom, so cinema equipment staying in another part of the house where I can have it as loud as I like – should of made my bedroom above the living room.
Major rooms also have cat6 going to the light switches - just in case i want to replace with a POE in-wall controller.
Have RG59+power “shotgun” cable for CCTV (analogue), speakers for automation announcements, Hard-wired alarm system which also feeds the automation system presence information.
Think about cabling or ducting near major entry points for entry systems, door locks and cameras.
Before the ground floor ceiling went up I ran ducting along the parallel beams back into the garage - which means i can fish cables to any location i want on the ground floor. The concrete slab also had ducting between key rooms.
I also drilled pilot "marker" holes into the first-floor floor, which serves to mark out key junction points should i need to access them in the future.
Control room had a larger void made along with a plywood wall, which makes attaching kit very easy:
All light circuits come back to a central box, I have 8 channel relay modules in there now controlling various circuits
monthefish said:
Cat6 is suggested still, Fibre is coming down in price but extenders are still more expensive. Cat6a is better but probably not really worth the extra. Unless you want to run 4K at 12 Bit 4:4:4 over 100m of Cat6/6a.
Few Cat6 runs to ceilings for Wifi, couple of runs for future cctv, run to the telephone connection, alarm and boiler etc.
Hope this helps.
CCTV can use Cat6 to, which reduces the different types of cables you need to buy.
Then either use ip cameras or Ethernet/coax/power adaptors to create an analogue connection.
As you say nothing else has really changed, the tech on the end has but the infrastructure has remained the same. I am starting revisit some projects now to upgrade them to 4K/UHD and better network long/wifi
V.
Then either use ip cameras or Ethernet/coax/power adaptors to create an analogue connection.
As you say nothing else has really changed, the tech on the end has but the infrastructure has remained the same. I am starting revisit some projects now to upgrade them to 4K/UHD and better network long/wifi
V.
I ran and would do so again dual CT100 coax to all minor tv points and multiple pairs to living rooms.
I use it for UHF analogue TV 'magic eye' redistribution to the bedrooms, which is far from HD but gives an acceptable picture.
That same coax can be used to give a sat feed straight into the TV's and you can now get HDMI to DTV modulators, which means I could upgrade the analogue UHF system to take a feed of the back of my skybox etc.
I use it for UHF analogue TV 'magic eye' redistribution to the bedrooms, which is far from HD but gives an acceptable picture.
That same coax can be used to give a sat feed straight into the TV's and you can now get HDMI to DTV modulators, which means I could upgrade the analogue UHF system to take a feed of the back of my skybox etc.
Don't know what all your Cat bits are about, but in my refurb in France in 2010 the builders ran a 2 inch dia plastic hosepipe type conduit everywhere. It had a steel wire inside so that in the future you can tie a new cable to it and pull it through. The conduit was then buried in the walls and under the driveway to where the gates were going to be installed at a later stage. Thught it was a brilliant idea and the DIY store sold it in various diameters.
a bit like this.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-corrugated-conduit...
a bit like this.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-corrugated-conduit...
This is something else I alwas try to do, Conduit to the front of the house to the edge of the property. By the Gate or the incoming electric pole/telephone etc.
Then when in 20 years we can have Fibre at the house, they don't have to dig up the drive.
BTW when ever pulling the draw cable make sure you pull another one in with the new cable.
Then when in 20 years we can have Fibre at the house, they don't have to dig up the drive.
BTW when ever pulling the draw cable make sure you pull another one in with the new cable.
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