RE: Ferrari 599 GTB: PH Fleet
Discussion
gck303 said:
Simond S said:
I am amazed that you bought a car from a dealer and sold it to a dealer and only suffered £6k loss.
In fact, I would like to call the custard test here. I would like to see a Ferrari bought and sold back to a dealer after ten months with this little depreciation on the paperwork.
It makes them just about the most economical sports car out there, either superb marketing from Ferrari or you truly are the worlds best car buyer.
I totally agree. There is NO way that a dealer could make money like that. In fact, I would like to call the custard test here. I would like to see a Ferrari bought and sold back to a dealer after ten months with this little depreciation on the paperwork.
It makes them just about the most economical sports car out there, either superb marketing from Ferrari or you truly are the worlds best car buyer.
That 6,000 must cover:
- loss in value of the car over that time
- costs of financing the car whilst it is in stock. (7% pa of 90,000), which is likely to be a couple of months
- A 20% VAT on the margin
- Sales person's commission
- Valet and other pre-sales costs
Indeed, lets see the paperwork. I would expect that a dealer would make a 20% margin on a vehicle, which would make the purchase/sales cost equal to 18,000 PLUS the depreciation over the year.
Having had a few over the years, every Ferrari or Lamborghini dealer wants 10k margin.
hairykrishna said:
BT52 said:
How many of the GTR detractors have actually driven one, and I mean driven one PROPERLY?
I suspect none of them. It's just an update of the old anti Evo/Impreza comments - "it's all just the computers innit?"Going back to the article, 10 grand is much less than I anticipated. Buying from, then selling back to, a dealer would get the average person much more of a pasting than that.
Then you find they prefer Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo. As if those cars have no electronics in them.
I can't help feeling what they really mean is my ego can't cope with a Nissan badge.
toppstuff said:
It could have been a lot worse financially. It seems that some models are really oversupplied. Some dealers seem awash with exotic metal with simply not enough buyers around.
Right now you can get £20-30,000 off a new M6. Ferrari 458 values are all over the place and dealers are full of the things. And Porsche 991's - well wander into your local OPC and be treated like a rock star if they think you'll buy one. Granturismo's seem oversupplied as well - every dealer has quite a selection and discounts are everywhere.
Over at Aston, the new Vanquish is gorgeous but a fair few are starting to trickle through the network with less than 500 miles, begging for someone to bid them. McLaren MP4's have taken a hit too ( but may stabilise ).
It's a minefield out there if you are worried about depreciation.
Gallardo's seem quite robust. I like the way the early ones are holding up really well now. Good be a worthwhile punt if you don't pay too much.
Having said this, history tells me that I am rubbish at this game. I usually lose a fortune.
The new M6 is tanking. My mate traded in his M5 about 6 months ago and the same BMW dealer is still trying to sell it I think. 458's agree - They'll look great value when they hit £100-110KRight now you can get £20-30,000 off a new M6. Ferrari 458 values are all over the place and dealers are full of the things. And Porsche 991's - well wander into your local OPC and be treated like a rock star if they think you'll buy one. Granturismo's seem oversupplied as well - every dealer has quite a selection and discounts are everywhere.
Over at Aston, the new Vanquish is gorgeous but a fair few are starting to trickle through the network with less than 500 miles, begging for someone to bid them. McLaren MP4's have taken a hit too ( but may stabilise ).
It's a minefield out there if you are worried about depreciation.
Gallardo's seem quite robust. I like the way the early ones are holding up really well now. Good be a worthwhile punt if you don't pay too much.
Having said this, history tells me that I am rubbish at this game. I usually lose a fortune.
If you can hold out for 3-5 years for any of the cars mentioned in this little lot, you'll get a fantastic buy
Personally I try to buy these types of cars after that period because they are still fantastic and modern and yet a fraction of the original cost. If you can live with the servicing, no-brainer
SLS will look like a great buy at mid £70K's.....which I suspect is about 18 months away
I'm not sure its been mentioned in this thread before, but if Chris has only done 3000 miles in his 599 and its 'only' cost him 10k then I'd suggest he's not fully declaring his motoring costs of the time period of ownership.
I'm guessing this hasn't been his only vehicle that he's run during that time period and that he's probably done a lot more mileage in other vehicles.
If he's been using other vehicles during the time period of 599 ownership in order to keep the the mileage down on the 599 (and thus trying to control the depreciation and other running costs) then these other costs have been subsidizing the cost of owning/running the 599.
My own little 'garage queen' didn't cost me a huge amount over the two year ownership period, but I did have to run another car for the 50k mileage i didn't want to add to it....
I'm guessing this hasn't been his only vehicle that he's run during that time period and that he's probably done a lot more mileage in other vehicles.
If he's been using other vehicles during the time period of 599 ownership in order to keep the the mileage down on the 599 (and thus trying to control the depreciation and other running costs) then these other costs have been subsidizing the cost of owning/running the 599.
My own little 'garage queen' didn't cost me a huge amount over the two year ownership period, but I did have to run another car for the 50k mileage i didn't want to add to it....
TTmonkey said:
I'm not sure its been mentioned in this thread before, but if Chris has only done 3000 miles in his 599 and its 'only' cost him 10k then I'd suggest he's not fully declaring his motoring costs of the time period of ownership.
I'm guessing this hasn't been his only vehicle that he's run during that time period and that he's probably done a lot more mileage in other vehicles.
If he's been using other vehicles during the time period of 599 ownership in order to keep the the mileage down on the 599 (and thus trying to control the depreciation and other running costs) then these other costs have been subsidizing the cost of owning/running the 599.
My own little 'garage queen' didn't cost me a huge amount over the two year ownership period, but I did have to run another car for the 50k mileage i didn't want to add to it....
I suspect that the man maths in this article were going to be read, at some stage, by Mrs Harris and therefore have been massaged down a little ...I'm guessing this hasn't been his only vehicle that he's run during that time period and that he's probably done a lot more mileage in other vehicles.
If he's been using other vehicles during the time period of 599 ownership in order to keep the the mileage down on the 599 (and thus trying to control the depreciation and other running costs) then these other costs have been subsidizing the cost of owning/running the 599.
My own little 'garage queen' didn't cost me a huge amount over the two year ownership period, but I did have to run another car for the 50k mileage i didn't want to add to it....
I found the article interesting, however there is no way that the ownership costs relating to the 599 only cost £10k for a ten month period and if it were then Chris is the luckiest guy around.
I would expect that the depreciation cost alone for such a car would be around £1,500 a month, so the real cost of ownership should be at least double what Chris has stated.....
I would expect that the depreciation cost alone for such a car would be around £1,500 a month, so the real cost of ownership should be at least double what Chris has stated.....
I was only teasing about the milage... 20,000 was clearly a conveniently round figure to start with.
It's just so 'depressing' the effect that mileage has on Ferrari values. I've just had a quick search on autoscout24.ch and found one with a mere 56,040 KM up for CHF99k (only £68k - seems cheap for out here) but noticed that the majority of 'low mileage' examples are asking double this...
Given that Chris presumably wanted the full 'ownership' experience, I would have thought that he might have been tempted by a higher milage example, done a bit more with it and not put him self at risk of a kick in the wallet: buy cheap, sell cheap etc. but I do appreciate that he is a very busy chap with other cars at his disposal - although that would appear to correlate with the traditional/default Ferrari-owner profile...
It's just so 'depressing' the effect that mileage has on Ferrari values. I've just had a quick search on autoscout24.ch and found one with a mere 56,040 KM up for CHF99k (only £68k - seems cheap for out here) but noticed that the majority of 'low mileage' examples are asking double this...
Given that Chris presumably wanted the full 'ownership' experience, I would have thought that he might have been tempted by a higher milage example, done a bit more with it and not put him self at risk of a kick in the wallet: buy cheap, sell cheap etc. but I do appreciate that he is a very busy chap with other cars at his disposal - although that would appear to correlate with the traditional/default Ferrari-owner profile...
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