RE: Porsche 911 GT3 (991): Review
Discussion
RichardD said:
toppstuff said:
Where is Porsche going with this?
Using every trick possible to get the best laptimes from a naturally aspirated rear mounted straight six engined two wheel drive sportscar 
?1. Harris: That a manual gearchange is a core driver input, that should be maintained as at least an option in order to reward good technique.
2. Porsche (AP): That a manual gearchange is not a core driver input (racers left them behind ages ago). Thus automating it (well) leaves more bandwidth in the cerebral cortex for getting reward from the other key inputs: steering and acceleration/ braking. Supplemental argument: that with the dizzying capabilities of a modern Porsche GT spec car most drivers will get more pleasure from the car NOT having a manual box.
Who is right? Don't know in an absolute sense, but while I like 3 pedals I can see that in 15 years time the argument will be moot: manual boxes will be for oddities and classics.
Great vid, great skill and a sound conclusion.
I don't understand though, Porsche are the king of vehcile spec options - why not just offer a manual gearbox as an option?
I'm sure there's something out there off the shelf from the likes of ZF that can handle it going by todays global new car power figures.
I don't understand though, Porsche are the king of vehcile spec options - why not just offer a manual gearbox as an option?
I'm sure there's something out there off the shelf from the likes of ZF that can handle it going by todays global new car power figures.
Surely what's effectively happened is that to those who have historically understood the GT3 to mean a certain type of car, they now have to think somewhat differently using 2013 as a reference I/e the difference between 2013+ GT3s and those that precede 2013
This new car looks like an amazing piece of kit, far more usable as a daily driver and continent crosser than old GT3 as well as being good for occasional trackwork and for Sunday drives
There was always going to be a point at which the 'old school' GT3/RS cars reached a zenith - we got there with the last batch of 997s and those cars will not feel dated from a fun point of view for many years to come
It was inevitable - you can't have the paradox of a performance car where they put stickers instead of badges on to lose weight but keep a much slower shifting box rather than go flappy paddle
And it's too simplistic to say put a manual box in as an option. Too much of everything about the car's design is synced in to which box is being used to make it worth offering - it's not the cost of the box, it's the cost of working out ratios, electronic displays, wiring looms, mounts, weight distribution, etc
This new car looks like an amazing piece of kit, far more usable as a daily driver and continent crosser than old GT3 as well as being good for occasional trackwork and for Sunday drives
There was always going to be a point at which the 'old school' GT3/RS cars reached a zenith - we got there with the last batch of 997s and those cars will not feel dated from a fun point of view for many years to come
It was inevitable - you can't have the paradox of a performance car where they put stickers instead of badges on to lose weight but keep a much slower shifting box rather than go flappy paddle
And it's too simplistic to say put a manual box in as an option. Too much of everything about the car's design is synced in to which box is being used to make it worth offering - it's not the cost of the box, it's the cost of working out ratios, electronic displays, wiring looms, mounts, weight distribution, etc
hornbaek said:
Exactly - Jonby. I was told that being able to provide a manual option is not about tweaks which could be paid for a healthy fee on the options list but a fundamental different design brief for the engineers.
Rods 'n' cables vs the relative simplicity of fly-by-wire/actuator thingys?
kambites said:
McAndy said:
Purely playing devil's advocate: I'm sure there are other technologies that have evolved, particularly in the automotive sector, that have left people crowing for the old and resenting the new. However, in time most come round to the fact that the new is better and end up lamenting the loss of the old like one would an ex-girlfriend: yep, it was fun, but they're an ex for a reason (possibly even for several!)
I don't think that's true; at least it's certainly isn't for me. There have been a number of cases where I have intensely disliked new developments and I've generally I've eventually come to view them as an evil I can't get away from but I've never come to like them; they just get added to the list of things that make me despair about new cars in general. to quote barney stinson, 'old is always better'
me, i love the satisfaction of knowing i just nailed a gearchange and got it absolutely right. so i guess i'll just buy old cars in future.
Great reviews - pinacle of motoring journalism - so thanks.
Having driven plenty of dual clutches, some bad some excellent --- I'll take a manual GT3 every time. 997 or 996RS. Personally, I just don't drive fast enough, regularly enough, to get the most of the 10/10ths that a PDK allows. Actually found myself doing 140mph recently in my M6 on a motorway and realised that there is such a thing as too much effortless power! Going to move back to something more visceral (and manual!) for my next vehicle!
Having driven plenty of dual clutches, some bad some excellent --- I'll take a manual GT3 every time. 997 or 996RS. Personally, I just don't drive fast enough, regularly enough, to get the most of the 10/10ths that a PDK allows. Actually found myself doing 140mph recently in my M6 on a motorway and realised that there is such a thing as too much effortless power! Going to move back to something more visceral (and manual!) for my next vehicle!
Watching the video I noticed the car at c.160kph at the top of third gear. My 5 speed 964 could also get close to c.160kph in third. Mind you, mine only revved to 6.5k and took an extra 4(ish) seconds to hit that benchmark. I also had an S2000 which revved to 9k. It was the best thing about it. Seven gears driving a flat six to nine that quickly must feel fantastic. Mental performance from a normally aspirated engine.
It's been said before but I'll say it again...
The GT3 is dead. Long live the GT3.
It's been said before but I'll say it again...
The GT3 is dead. Long live the GT3.
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