RE: BMW i3 prices confirmed
Discussion
Chicane-UK said:
I'm sick of this narrow minded, "my way or the highway" attitude towards electric cars. You're going to need to deal with the fact that plenty of people (even here on this enthusiasts forum) find the technology fascinating. I love driving powerful petrol cars but am all for this electric tech and can't wait to have a go at driving something like this.
I don't see why both can't co-exist.
And BTW - 7 posts in 7 months and you only spring up to rail against electric tech and promote shale oil? Do you work for Shell or something?!
no im not a gordon brown loving asshole i have a mind of my own and know if you look into shale oil you would see it is the future my bentley gt supersport is better than the crap electric thing hereI don't see why both can't co-exist.
And BTW - 7 posts in 7 months and you only spring up to rail against electric tech and promote shale oil? Do you work for Shell or something?!
Aaron W said:
the 116d is a CAR not a money making scheme like the crap here
I would rather drive an electric car than any 116d. What with actually doing the city driving thing it makes a lot of sense if you don't have to travel too far and charge points are popping up all over the place now. Trust me, NO car is exciting during the Friday night rush hour in a city and the saving on fuel would at least take the edge off.
StoatInACoat said:
I would rather drive an electric car than any 116d. What with actually doing the city driving thing it makes a lot of sense if you don't have to travel too far and charge points are popping up all over the place now.
Trust me, NO car is exciting during the Friday night rush hour in a city and the saving on fuel would at least take the edge off.
for the money why not a bmw 535d second hand for 12 grand it makes more sense and anyone who likes cars will agreeTrust me, NO car is exciting during the Friday night rush hour in a city and the saving on fuel would at least take the edge off.
danp said:
Got to be a loss leader for that carbon cell/tech, will be a huge success imo (in sales terms)...hopefully VW will adjust the price of the xl1 accordingly ;-)
It's not really the same sort of car as the XL1. This may or may not be a loss leader for BMW, but it's still an attempt at producing viable family transport at a reasonable price. The XL1 is purely a "no expense spared" proof of concept type vehicle. Aaron W said:
no im not a gordon brown loving asshole i have a mind of my own and know if you look into shale oil you would see it is the future my bentley gt supersport is better than the crap electric thing here
Ahh... it's half term isn't it. That explains a lot. You don't happen to live in Leeds do you by any chance Aaron? Aaron W said:
for the money why not a bmw 535d second hand for 12 grand it makes more sense and anyone who likes cars will agree
No it doesn't, a 535d will burn fuel. Without getting into the stupid "new cars cost more than old previously farted on ones shocker" debate, if I was going to get one of these I would lease it and treat it as a tool to potter about in. An i3 is not something I aspire to, granted but neither is a 5 series and certainly not a bloody 116d.Very good effort, I could see this being a very useful commuter vehicle. The elephant in the room for me though is the lifetime and cost of the batteries. Renault seem to be on the right wavelength with the idea of renting batteries, but I fear this will put off people who actually want the sense of owning the entire vehicle.
Anyone that has ever had a laptop or mobile phone will notice how quickly the battery capacity can deteriorate using similar cell technology to these cars. For me, electric cars become viable when either the batteries will reliably live longer than 10 years, or the cost of their replacement is in line with the servicing costs of an equivalent internal combustion engine car.
Of course, once electric cars become the norm, the government will want to recover the revenue lost in fuel sales. I can see the introduction of a mandatory, proprietary charging plug that logs the kWh that go into the car for taxing purposes, or worse, GPS pay-as-you-drive. Also, has anybody checked that the electricity infrastructure of this country can support charging an electric car in every driveway?
Anyone that has ever had a laptop or mobile phone will notice how quickly the battery capacity can deteriorate using similar cell technology to these cars. For me, electric cars become viable when either the batteries will reliably live longer than 10 years, or the cost of their replacement is in line with the servicing costs of an equivalent internal combustion engine car.
Of course, once electric cars become the norm, the government will want to recover the revenue lost in fuel sales. I can see the introduction of a mandatory, proprietary charging plug that logs the kWh that go into the car for taxing purposes, or worse, GPS pay-as-you-drive. Also, has anybody checked that the electricity infrastructure of this country can support charging an electric car in every driveway?
kambites said:
It's not really the same sort of car as the XL1. This may or may not be a loss leader for BMW, but it's still an attempt at producing viable family transport at a reasonable price. The XL1 is purely a "no expense spared" proof of concept type vehicle.
this is comparable to the XL1 in terms of "no expense spared" imo, at least the dash isn't from a MINI ;-)This will be a huge sales success. It's not just the tech it's the family friendly packaging that for BMW is at least a first.....they don't have anything like an A Class or MPV in their current range. They do have the X1 but I tried to buy my Mrs a 1 series and she just didn't like the packaging....not a fan of the classic BMW seating position. She hated driving my 5 series.
We live in London so may well have a good look at it.
We live in London so may well have a good look at it.
I quite fancy the idea of one of these to offset my 550i!
The vast majority of trips done in my 550i are local ones of >5miles. Wife is averaging 15mpg in doing those jaunts, so having something which can be used for those and the gas guzzler sitting in the garage for the longer journeys where 30mpg is do-able, is quite appealing. Also given the pricing works out far more attractive than originally anticipated.
The vast majority of trips done in my 550i are local ones of >5miles. Wife is averaging 15mpg in doing those jaunts, so having something which can be used for those and the gas guzzler sitting in the garage for the longer journeys where 30mpg is do-able, is quite appealing. Also given the pricing works out far more attractive than originally anticipated.
Chicane-UK said:
Aaron W said:
no im not a gordon brown loving asshole i have a mind of my own and know if you look into shale oil you would see it is the future my bentley gt supersport is better than the crap electric thing here
Ahh... it's half term isn't it. That explains a lot.Happy to be proven wrong though Aaron W.
danp said:
kambites said:
It's not really the same sort of car as the XL1. This may or may not be a loss leader for BMW, but it's still an attempt at producing viable family transport at a reasonable price. The XL1 is purely a "no expense spared" proof of concept type vehicle.
this is comparable to the XL1 in terms of "no expense spared" imo, at least the dash isn't from a MINI ;-)Hmm, I think it's quite ugly if I'm honest (and I owned a 1-series...). The interior looks nice (but not as 'premium' as I expected) and I have massive reservations about plug-in electric cars as a whole.
Firstly we're being told that we're facing an energy problem whereby we don't have the infrastructure in place to meet our needs over the next 5-10 years (and it's too late to solve this with new nuclear power stations as they will take at least that long to build). What happens when half a million people plug in their cars in the evening to charge them up? Or a million? The strain on the Grid will be huge.
Secondly I live in a flat on the second floor - I have nowhere I could plug a car in and I know I won't be alone in this. Cue extra expense having a charging point fitted outside and linked to my meter.
My third concern is with electricity prices. As people move to electric cars, there will be a decrease in fuel duty for the Government. At present VAT is 5% on energy. There's no way the Government won't increase the levies on electricity and as there's no way of distinguishing between domestic use and 'fuelling' a car with juice, it can only mean an increase in electricity prices overall.
Finally my concern is with the charging process itself. I've not seen any charging stations in use, but is there some sort of security system to stop someone being able to a) unplug your car (potentially leaving you stranded) and b) prevent someone else managing to charge their car from your socket?
Overall I don't believe electric cars are the way forward and I think the knock-on (unintended) effects will end up costing us all more in the long run, all in the pursuit of the False Idol of Green.
Firstly we're being told that we're facing an energy problem whereby we don't have the infrastructure in place to meet our needs over the next 5-10 years (and it's too late to solve this with new nuclear power stations as they will take at least that long to build). What happens when half a million people plug in their cars in the evening to charge them up? Or a million? The strain on the Grid will be huge.
Secondly I live in a flat on the second floor - I have nowhere I could plug a car in and I know I won't be alone in this. Cue extra expense having a charging point fitted outside and linked to my meter.
My third concern is with electricity prices. As people move to electric cars, there will be a decrease in fuel duty for the Government. At present VAT is 5% on energy. There's no way the Government won't increase the levies on electricity and as there's no way of distinguishing between domestic use and 'fuelling' a car with juice, it can only mean an increase in electricity prices overall.
Finally my concern is with the charging process itself. I've not seen any charging stations in use, but is there some sort of security system to stop someone being able to a) unplug your car (potentially leaving you stranded) and b) prevent someone else managing to charge their car from your socket?
Overall I don't believe electric cars are the way forward and I think the knock-on (unintended) effects will end up costing us all more in the long run, all in the pursuit of the False Idol of Green.
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