RE: Zenos Project E10 - exclusive
Discussion
Going back to a previous poster's comment on ths thread RE a super lightweight 2+2, I would love to see a modern interpretation of the Elan +2.
Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Stevemcmaster said:
Going back to a previous poster's comment on ths thread RE a super lightweight 2+2, I would love to see a modern interpretation of the Elan +2.
Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
Totally agree, was another thread on PH about the dirth of 2+2's, let alone lightweight ones!Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
I'd actually like one that's also a convertible, nearest to that will be the topless GT86 if they make it and that'll probably be 1300kg...
Stevemcmaster said:
Going back to a previous poster's comment on ths thread RE a super lightweight 2+2, I would love to see a modern interpretation of the Elan +2.
Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Surely Toyota/Subaru have already done that...Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Gary C said:
Maybe they should also sell the tub/body/suspension and let you source the engine, wheels, electrics.
If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
If you're trying to build a brand - starting to sell it as a kit is not the best way to start.If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
When you assemble at the factory, you can check everything, us the parts you want to use and set the car up to handle the way you intended.
If you sell the car to a home builder, while they may build it correctly, you have no influence over it, they could use cheap parts, cut corners, not bother to set the car up correctly etc. etc.
You then have a sub-standard car advertising your engineering (see the Hawk Stratos on TG for an example).
Craikeybaby said:
Stevemcmaster said:
Going back to a previous poster's comment on ths thread RE a super lightweight 2+2, I would love to see a modern interpretation of the Elan +2.
Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Surely Toyota/Subaru have already done that...Light, good handling and with the option when you need it to carry more than two people, if only for short journeys...
Make it for less than 30k and I'm in + would be able to convince HID that it's practical as a daily driver....
From the sketches however, it looks like they are all 2 seaters - booo....
On the first sketch, maybe a cheaper but equally focused alt to the Lotus 2 Eleven?
Either way - good luck to the Zenos team - I hope the homework pays off - let me know where to sign up to be a test driver :-)
Cheers
Steve
Strikes me a bit odd that the single differentiating USP of this car is that it has an extruded backbone chassis. Interesting, maybe. Good engineering, possibly. A good reason to buy it over all the other options, surely not??
In this market, i'd rank things in terms of importance as follows:
1) Styling
2) Performance
3) Cost
4) Brand/image
5) Reliability / warranty etc
We know they are using an off-the-shelf Ford Power Products engine, so that's not exactly exciting either. This thing had better look amazing or i can't see it flying in the current sports car climate........
In this market, i'd rank things in terms of importance as follows:
1) Styling
2) Performance
3) Cost
4) Brand/image
5) Reliability / warranty etc
We know they are using an off-the-shelf Ford Power Products engine, so that's not exactly exciting either. This thing had better look amazing or i can't see it flying in the current sports car climate........
Mark Benson said:
Gary C said:
Maybe they should also sell the tub/body/suspension and let you source the engine, wheels, electrics.
If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
If you're trying to build a brand - starting to sell it as a kit is not the best way to start.If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
When you assemble at the factory, you can check everything, us the parts you want to use and set the car up to handle the way you intended.
If you sell the car to a home builder, while they may build it correctly, you have no influence over it, they could use cheap parts, cut corners, not bother to set the car up correctly etc. etc.
You then have a sub-standard car advertising your engineering (see the Hawk Stratos on TG for an example).
That business model has destroyed caterham's profits
And ultima.
I do see what you mean, and the establishe kit makers are in a specific market, but what market is this car trying to enter ? With no cost it's hard to tell.
Gary C said:
Mark Benson said:
Gary C said:
Maybe they should also sell the tub/body/suspension and let you source the engine, wheels, electrics.
If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
If you're trying to build a brand - starting to sell it as a kit is not the best way to start.If the tubs under £200, how much could they do a basic kit for ? Less than 10k ?
When you assemble at the factory, you can check everything, us the parts you want to use and set the car up to handle the way you intended.
If you sell the car to a home builder, while they may build it correctly, you have no influence over it, they could use cheap parts, cut corners, not bother to set the car up correctly etc. etc.
You then have a sub-standard car advertising your engineering (see the Hawk Stratos on TG for an example).
That business model has destroyed caterham's profits
And ultima.
I do see what you mean, and the establishe kit makers are in a specific market, but what market is this car trying to enter ? With no cost it's hard to tell.
If we're lucky, they're looking to create a new niche at the £20k mark, but I'd be surprised.
I'm not saying offering a kit and ensuring consistent quality can't be done - but it can't be done easily, you'd basically have to supply the whole kit and a comprehensive set of instructions - would that turn out any cheaper than putting it together yourself?
And Caterham have moved on quite a bit from their roots, different times and all that.
As for Ultima, outside of a few knowledgeable petrolheads they're relatively obscure - they're not exactly mainstream.....
As you say though, it's all supposition until they release more details....
I really dont get why people look at a sector where most of the players are either teetering on the edge of bankrupcy (Lotus), are already bankrupt (almost everyone else), or make cars in hobby numbers (Ariel, Ultima etc) and say "I want me some of that!"
Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
I can answer that (what a first post huh?)
firstly, by admitting that it's not a genius business case. No the reason is that cars like this inspire people, not everyone, maybe not loads of people, but enough of them are so inspired to do it their own way and want to share their interpretation, preferably at some profit mitigating the loss they would have incurred making just the one.
I know this from being just such a one. On that note i see a lot to like in the structural design, and to me the chassis is the very foundation of a good car, for that very reason alone, i hope they stay healthy.
firstly, by admitting that it's not a genius business case. No the reason is that cars like this inspire people, not everyone, maybe not loads of people, but enough of them are so inspired to do it their own way and want to share their interpretation, preferably at some profit mitigating the loss they would have incurred making just the one.
I know this from being just such a one. On that note i see a lot to like in the structural design, and to me the chassis is the very foundation of a good car, for that very reason alone, i hope they stay healthy.
Wadeski said:
I really dont get why people look at a sector where most of the players are either teetering on the edge of bankrupcy (Lotus), are already bankrupt (almost everyone else), or make cars in hobby numbers (Ariel, Ultima etc) and say "I want me some of that!"
Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
Agreed. Caterham seem to be doing well for themselves, but I don't see that there is profit to be gained as a new entrant to this sector. I think that it would be better to go down the route of the classics. Where's the modern all-independently-sprung monocoque MGA, for instance? Updated versions of 60s Ferraris would be good too, but I understand Ferrari have sued several replica-makers to oblivion. A Cadillac CTS-based Iso Grifo would be nice and I doubt Giotto Bizzarrini would sue you for it... I have seen something similar done with a rolled CTS-V and a rotten-floored Rover P5!Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
Also, weren't Jaguar talking a few years ago of launching a Heritage division, doing 'new' Mk2s, XJ6s, C-types, D-types and the like?
The reason the light weight track oriented sports cars are chosen are because development costs are kept low.
When you have to design and test and make several door seals, wipers, heating systems, locks etc etc it soon adds up.
Lightweight, open top sports cxars and you can concentrate on how the thing goes for the most part.
When you have to design and test and make several door seals, wipers, heating systems, locks etc etc it soon adds up.
Lightweight, open top sports cxars and you can concentrate on how the thing goes for the most part.
Wadeski said:
I really dont get why people look at a sector where most of the players are either teetering on the edge of bankrupcy (Lotus), are already bankrupt (almost everyone else), or make cars in hobby numbers (Ariel, Ultima etc) and say "I want me some of that!"
Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
I think the answer is:Surely there must be better business models in the automotive industry for bright young British engineers to try? 4x4s? citycars? retro-inspired fun cars that aren't Cobras?
- Sex appeal
- Stripped-out sports cars can be developed for buttons, compared to anything intended to be sold to a normal person.
Whatever you do, include an option with a roof (like the targe concept pic shown earlier in the thread)
I've driven and been driven in a bunch of "sports cars" from the low production end of the market and not yet one I'd feel confidence cruising up the motorway in the rain without wearing a wetsuit!
(Although it too leaked) The best roof I've seen was the Suzuki Cappacino.
I've driven and been driven in a bunch of "sports cars" from the low production end of the market and not yet one I'd feel confidence cruising up the motorway in the rain without wearing a wetsuit!
(Although it too leaked) The best roof I've seen was the Suzuki Cappacino.
scubadude said:
Whatever you do, include an option with a roof (like the targe concept pic shown earlier in the thread)
I've driven and been driven in a bunch of "sports cars" from the low production end of the market and not yet one I'd feel confidence cruising up the motorway in the rain without wearing a wetsuit!
(Although it too leaked) The best roof I've seen was the Suzuki Cappacino.
Need to copy the mr2 design. Not only did it not leak, it also had a lined section which was under tension so you did not get the flappy roof effect when inside. Also the fastest roof to lower.I've driven and been driven in a bunch of "sports cars" from the low production end of the market and not yet one I'd feel confidence cruising up the motorway in the rain without wearing a wetsuit!
(Although it too leaked) The best roof I've seen was the Suzuki Cappacino.
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