RE: Ferrari F12: Review
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
E38Ross said:
Ok so most cars add about 45-50kgs for fuel, plus 75kgs for driver, add what, 15kgs for oil, coolant and some scree wash you're talking around 10% additional mass. Fair amount. Funny I remember someone a while ago claiming the M5 was too heavy and some other car was better as it was lighter.... Yet they quoted a dry vs kerb weight and worked out the M5 was lighter 
???British Beef said:
Financing options... mortgaging options more like!
A shot in the dark -
Assuming you have equity in property to secure the loan and you have a "friendly" bank manager:
> Nearly new cost: F12 iwht 500 miles on clock ~£250k
> 1 year old: F12 with 2500 miles on clock ~£220k
Depreciation for 1 year: £30k "max" - BIG unknown - cheapest Aventador 2 yrs old with 11k miles has only lost £50k from new price (16% in 2 years!!!!!)
Cost of finance at 7% £14k (assuming £50k deposit)
Cost of insurance ???? £3k
Im sure I read that service is included for first 3 years on all new Ferraris
Petrol / consumables almost irrelevant, as you would be spending +/- on what ever car you drive.
1 year and 2000 miles I would guess £47k or £3917 per month or £23.50 per mile.
Tempted ????
What about at 10k miles per year? Losing 30k in 1 year is actually not too bad, a little over 10%. Most cars lose way more percentage than this. A shot in the dark -
Assuming you have equity in property to secure the loan and you have a "friendly" bank manager:
> Nearly new cost: F12 iwht 500 miles on clock ~£250k
> 1 year old: F12 with 2500 miles on clock ~£220k
Depreciation for 1 year: £30k "max" - BIG unknown - cheapest Aventador 2 yrs old with 11k miles has only lost £50k from new price (16% in 2 years!!!!!)
Cost of finance at 7% £14k (assuming £50k deposit)
Cost of insurance ???? £3k
Im sure I read that service is included for first 3 years on all new Ferraris
Petrol / consumables almost irrelevant, as you would be spending +/- on what ever car you drive.
1 year and 2000 miles I would guess £47k or £3917 per month or £23.50 per mile.
Tempted ????
and they're working on a much more powerful car because - something something...
We're in the stratosphere of car ownership here - the car Clarkson said had "too much power" - logic no longer applies, there are other forces at work.
Some of those forces are simply down to the image of the car - and when you put an F12 next to an Aventador - erm - it's not such an easy thing to decide.
With their prices they won't be your only cars - you may even own both (they're sufficiently different in some ways) - it's not even worth comparing them.
For sheer balls-out supercar wow points tho - Aventador by a mile - it has 'Athena Poster' qualities the F12 simply cannot deliver
We're in the stratosphere of car ownership here - the car Clarkson said had "too much power" - logic no longer applies, there are other forces at work.
Some of those forces are simply down to the image of the car - and when you put an F12 next to an Aventador - erm - it's not such an easy thing to decide.
With their prices they won't be your only cars - you may even own both (they're sufficiently different in some ways) - it's not even worth comparing them.
For sheer balls-out supercar wow points tho - Aventador by a mile - it has 'Athena Poster' qualities the F12 simply cannot deliver
My question is this: what's the F12 *for*?
Seems to me:
The LaFfer will have to be quicker on track & be the technology summit.
The FF will probably be a more relaxed GT.
The Cali will be a better cruiser / trophy-wife car.
The 458 might be quicker point-to-point in the real world.
Not being a Ferrari customer demographic, I don't see how the F12 fits into the range - perhaps that just emphasises the quality of the other cars? And, as has been pointed out, the prospective F12 owner probably doesn't need a single does-it-all car.
Seems to me:
The LaFfer will have to be quicker on track & be the technology summit.
The FF will probably be a more relaxed GT.
The Cali will be a better cruiser / trophy-wife car.
The 458 might be quicker point-to-point in the real world.
Not being a Ferrari customer demographic, I don't see how the F12 fits into the range - perhaps that just emphasises the quality of the other cars? And, as has been pointed out, the prospective F12 owner probably doesn't need a single does-it-all car.
I love the F12, it's my favourite current (super)car. It's not as wild looking as the Aventador, but in some ways I prefer the F12 styling (more elegant, not as shouty). I'm still a bit unsure about the back end, but I love that front. The engine though is a masterpiece, what more could you want from a supercar engine? V12, n/a, high revving, big displacement, just perfection in my book.
To me it does fit in the current range, there has always been a GT V12 front engined Ferrari in the lineup. The LaFerrari is in a very different price range and is one of the Ferrari specials. The 458 appeals to a different customer who really wants a sportscar. The only one that is a bit weird is actually the FF, but that's something new in the range and IIRC was meant to draw a new type of customer towards Ferrari (a car you can use every day in all seasons).
I would pick this over the new selection of hybrid hypercars and also prefer it to the 458. Just need to win the lottery now
To me it does fit in the current range, there has always been a GT V12 front engined Ferrari in the lineup. The LaFerrari is in a very different price range and is one of the Ferrari specials. The 458 appeals to a different customer who really wants a sportscar. The only one that is a bit weird is actually the FF, but that's something new in the range and IIRC was meant to draw a new type of customer towards Ferrari (a car you can use every day in all seasons).
I would pick this over the new selection of hybrid hypercars and also prefer it to the 458. Just need to win the lottery now
I'm not sure they are direct competitors anyway are they - the F12 and the Aventador - one's mid engined, low slung and styled like a fast jet looking from almost any direction, very accomplished yes of course, but very 'look at me'. The F12 being front engined is probably designed to be more 'understated' in such company, which shows in some of the comments in this thread, but no less accomplished, and by the sounds of it probably the better car for proper road journey's and not just driving up to the red carpet at a posh nightclub.
There's room for both in my fantasy garage, but if you could only have one then the Aventador might be a bit too compromised - so I would take the Ferrari... I wish.
There's room for both in my fantasy garage, but if you could only have one then the Aventador might be a bit too compromised - so I would take the Ferrari... I wish.
Chris Harris said:
It's not an especially emotional driving experience on the road, but it's actually just what I'd want in this type of car. I desperately want one. Finance calculations?!
Hangon I've got a rather broken calculator that just might make the man maths work! PM me your address and I'll get it sent over. I'd like to remain anonymous as I'm sure Mrs Harris might come round and beat me to death.bashful said:
My question is this: what's the F12 *for*?
Seems to me:
The LaFfer will have to be quicker on track & be the technology summit.
The FF will probably be a more relaxed GT.
The Cali will be a better cruiser / trophy-wife car.
The 458 might be quicker point-to-point in the real world.
Not being a Ferrari customer demographic, I don't see how the F12 fits into the range - perhaps that just emphasises the quality of the other cars? And, as has been pointed out, the prospective F12 owner probably doesn't need a single does-it-all car.
Exactly. I know their target market doesn't care (or doesn't have to) but an F12 price gives you so many other options - 458 + Alpina + classic 328....Seems to me:
The LaFfer will have to be quicker on track & be the technology summit.
The FF will probably be a more relaxed GT.
The Cali will be a better cruiser / trophy-wife car.
The 458 might be quicker point-to-point in the real world.
Not being a Ferrari customer demographic, I don't see how the F12 fits into the range - perhaps that just emphasises the quality of the other cars? And, as has been pointed out, the prospective F12 owner probably doesn't need a single does-it-all car.
Chris Harris said:
It's not an especially emotional driving experience on the road, but it's actually just what I'd want in this type of car. I desperately want one. Finance calculations?!
But wouldn't you be just getting a £200k + track day car considering what you wrote. It's been a nice few weeks but now rain has returned, the summer is over, and you would end up with a car you cannot put the power down and with poor steering feel on the roads.I know the Aventador is not as good a car in your opinion (though it beat the F12 in Evo) but that is far more "supercar" looking when you cannot go fast. Is the FF or F12 a better road car, perhaps you need to compare both back to back on road now you are chums with the Ferrari guys again. Would be a good video!
At least wait to the Ferrari 458 LaSpecialOne comes out, maybe that is the best ever.
Mrs Monkey, time for you to stop Chris acting like the fatboy at the eat as much as you want stall, only to want to do the same once he has got home
PS Looking forward to the vid. No owner will ever drive it like that I bet ....
exceed said:
Chris Harris said:
It's not an especially emotional driving experience on the road, but it's actually just what I'd want in this type of car. I desperately want one. Finance calculations?!
Hangon I've got a rather broken calculator that just might make the man maths work! PM me your address and I'll get it sent over. I'd like to remain anonymous as I'm sure Mrs Harris might come round and beat me to death.Look forward to the video.
It is a bit strange that Chris would want to own a car such as this.
Surely getting to drive all these sorts of cars week in and week out with someone elses petrol and tires would be enough.
Not too mention avoiding the money down the toilet depreciation figures!
I would just be ragging round in a $10,000 hatch!
It is a bit strange that Chris would want to own a car such as this.
Surely getting to drive all these sorts of cars week in and week out with someone elses petrol and tires would be enough.
Not too mention avoiding the money down the toilet depreciation figures!
I would just be ragging round in a $10,000 hatch!
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