RE: Alfa Romeo 4C: Review

[kambites]

I think the BMW is an aluminium chassis with a carbon fibre safety bolted to the top? If that's the case, the stresses the BMW's CF is subjected to will be much less than a true CF chassis.

[otolith]

I don't think either of them have any exposed exterior carbon panels - the BMW is a CF passenger cell on an aluminium chassis clothed in thermoplastic panels, the Alfa is a carbon tub with GRP bodywork. The only question for me would be whether any of the underside is exposed, but it looks to me as if the flat floor is an undertray;

[Esseesse]

otolith said:

This car is crying out for a neat splitter to replace the wavey bit at the bottom of the rear bumper on the Scuderia version.

[m3jappa]

I've not been so excited about a car for quite some time. I think it looks beautiful and I bet it drives well.

I also bet it won't be long before tuners are giving a reliable 300+ bhp (will other components stand it) oh my imagine if this was 400bhp! Why not? Look at any other turbo car and extra power is so easy, even a decat,map, induction, fuel pump, better exhaust could be over 300!

I want one so badly but sadly I can't drop 50k on a car I also think it will be some time before they lose any money, supply and demand will mean not a lot of depreciation IMO.

So much want here.

[Esseesse]

m3jappa said:

will other components stand it

Apparently the gearbox has next to no overhead in standard tune.

[TA14]

DonkeyApple said:

This will be one of the first CF tub cars to simply be used as an every day car but a significant number of people.

I wonder if this will show up any weaknesses for the wonder material in contrast to aluminium or steel?

I think that there are two main concerns: fatigue and crash repairs. Can't do anything about the latter and you'll have to hope that Alfa have got their calcs right for the former. IIRC the rear suspension is mounted on a subframe whilst the front is mounted directly onto CF arms so the front is likely to be the weak point. By now one would hope that AR have done enough testing to dispell this worry.

[kambites]

m3jappa said:

I also bet it won't be long before tuners are giving a reliable 300+ bhp (will other components stand it) oh my imagine if this was 400bhp! Why not? Look at any other turbo car and extra power is so easy, even a decat,map, induction, fuel pump, better exhaust could be over 300!

400bhp would be 230bhp/litre. That's a lot for a road car engine.

[trashbat]

The 1750TBi has been used in the 159 and GQV, and companies like AHM get it to 290BHP with map alone. Rumour has it that for once, a lot of them came out of the factory significantly above the stated 235bhp, so more may not be hard in some cases.

Edit: AHM say:

AHM said:

many standard cars, when first tested on our rolling road, produce more power than that quoted by the manufacturer. The Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1750 TBi Cloverleaf has a quoted standard BHP figure of 235. When tested by us we have seen figures of 260 BHP for unmodified cars. Following this we re-checked our rolling road and are confident that these results are accurate.

[otolith]

TA14 said:

I think that there are two main concerns: fatigue and crash repairs. Can't do anything about the latter and you'll have to hope that Alfa have got their calcs right for the former. IIRC the rear suspension is mounted on a subframe whilst the front is mounted directly onto CF arms so the front is likely to be the weak point. By now one would hope that AR have done enough testing to dispell this worry.

I should think any impact severe enough to damage the tub would have written off a metal car. As to how well the occupants will be protected in such an impact, as you say, you have to assume that Alfa have done their sums. It seems to be possible to build extremely crashworthy racing cars from CF, so I doubt that there is anything inherently problematic with the material.

[underphil]

These guys recon they'll be getting crazy power from the 1750 : !!

http://www.pogea-racing.com/blog/?p=368

[V6Alfisti]

Really interesting 'Tech' book by Alfa about the 4C

http://www.alfaromeopress.com/download/2013/ALFA_R...

[k-ink]

underphil said:

These guys recon they'll be getting crazy power from the 1750 : !!

http://www.pogea-racing.com/blog/?p=368

This is going to shift with 400bhp! Wow, wish I could afford a black one

[torres del paine]

otolith said:

I don't think either of them have any exposed exterior carbon panels - the BMW is a CF passenger cell on an aluminium chassis clothed in thermoplastic panels, the Alfa is a carbon tub with GRP bodywork. The only question for me would be whether any of the underside is exposed, but it looks to me as if the flat floor is an undertray;

Great angle, looks fantastic in this shot, actually better from this angle than from above.

[braddo]

torres del paine said:

Great angle, looks fantastic in this shot, actually better from this angle than from above.

I love it too. Proper low, flat floor.

[V6Alfisti]

Official Alfa Option Price List.

Interestingly an optional sports wheel...but £1600 for those carbon lights!! :O

[kambites]

braddo said:

torres del paine said:

Great angle, looks fantastic in this shot, actually better from this angle than from above.

I love it too. Proper low, flat floor.

Of all the views of the car that I've seen, that is the one that makes it look most like an Elise.

[V6Alfisti]

4C vs Cayman

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1312_2...

Pretty much what everyone has said, the 4C is more of the drivers car (fun/raw) but the Cayman a very capable all rounder.

4C for me!

[k-ink]

So a standard 4C is already faster than a 911 Carrera. Imagine how brutal a 400bhp version will be - Ferrari territory!

[Ian974]

After a wander around some showrooms yesterday and being shocked at the prices of some new cars (and audi asking almost 40k for a used rs3), I'm getting even more convinced that this car looks a fantastic deal!

[V6Alfisti]

A group test in this months 'Car' magazine, basically said the Lotus was the most intense, Alfa sits in the middle and then Porsche.

Apparently the Alfa feels noticeably stiffer than the Elise but Elise steering is more responsive. The Porsche feels 'soft' compared to the other two cars but a great GT car.

Again, they loved the 4C.

No AC saves 18kg and apparently you can even spec a fixed seat, to save the weight of the runners!

Edited by V6Alfisti on Saturday 12th October 13:58