RE: VW Golf GTI vs BMW M135i vs Mercedes A45 AMG

RE: VW Golf GTI vs BMW M135i vs Mercedes A45 AMG

Author
Discussion

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
mainaman said:
General Zod said:
How come the chocolate label? You seem to really hate the engine! Is the 1.4 in your Seat the benchmark?
From a quick scroll trough the beemer forums.The rumour is that BMW has made the N55 less tunable on purpose,because of warranty fears or simply cost savings.
BMW aren't going to pay warranty costs on tuned engines anyway that is the risk you take if you do something to it.

General Zod

334 posts

130 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
mainaman said:
From a quick scroll trough the beemer forums.The rumour is that BMW has made the N55 less tunable on purpose,because of warranty fears or simply cost savings.The twincharger has actually been the benchmark in its class since its inception and has won numerous awards.The VAG group are phasing it out due to cost concerns,its replacement is even more economical,but only 140 bhp.
why would you need more than 320bhp in a hatchback? It seems to be enough to me!

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
General Zod said:
why would you need more than 320bhp in a hatchback? It seems to be enough to me!
I don't think anyone needs more than about 100bhp in a hatchback; that doesn't seem to stop people wanting more though. biggrin

Deako

50 posts

158 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
Roono said:
Can the 16-18% discounts on the M135i be had when paying cash, or is this only on finance deals?

I guess the dealer will be getting more than the list price anyway if you buy on finance (taking interest etc into account), so they have more wiggle room.

Thanks.
Negotiate a discount, then talk payment methods. Or take out the finance, then pay it straight off with 1 month interest penalty.

gaz1234

5,233 posts

218 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
boring

Wolands Advocate

2,493 posts

215 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
mainaman said:
I was discussing the performance and handling bits,not sunroofs.This articles is the latest one that states the Beemer's need for a LSD on a spirited drive.Regarding the seats,i find it amusing that even the 1M lacked sports seats, not even as an option as on VAG's mega hatches.Leather or not,the Merc comes with supportive and bolstered front seats that clamp you when monstering a back road.And find me a cheaper car on sale that offers this blend of performance,roadholding,(relative)luxury and practicality.
I can't decide whether you are a blind A45 fan or an M135i denier. The A45 is expensive, fact, get over it. The Golf and BMW are not cheap either, but they are quite a bit cheaper than the Merc and the Merc's nth degree of superiority on a challenging road isn't going to merit the extra wodge in many customer's eyes.

At the end of the day, it's also just personal preference. I greatly like Mercedes as a marque (C63 please, if anyone's offering) but I much prefer a straight six to a four cylinder (on soundtrack grounds if nothing else) and I much prefer a manual to an automatic and I don't need 4WD. And I don't care whether one gets to 60 slightly quicker, given both can knock it off sub-5 seconds. So I wouldn't buy the auto-only A45 even if it and the M135i cost the same amount, let alone where the Merc costs 15-20% more. But that doesn't mean I think the A45 is a bad car or feel that it deserves slating. It's just not one that appeals to my personal preferences.

As for your specific points above, I have had plenty of spirited drives in my M135i, including in the Alps, but not being someone who claims to be God behind the wheel, I have never reached the point where I felt I really needed an LSD, nor have I felt insuffiently supported by the seats. Rest assured, the M135i drives very, very well. I am happy to accept the verdict of others better qualified than me to comment that the A45 is better at the limit on a Yorkshire moor, but that's frankly academic to most owners. Particularly to one like me living in London, where (sadly) very spirited drives consistute a tiny fraction of my driving. So which car has the nth degree of control at the limit is simply immaterial. Whereas the price to have the car optioned to my liking is not immaterial. And on the subject of the seats, no they don't look racey like the ones in the A45, but there's nothing actually wrong with them in terms of bolstering, support and comfort. They are after all sports seats (a boggo 1-series doesn't have them), just not "look at me" one-piece jobs.

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
A subject close to my heart, with a sprog on the way I've been looking for what seems like ages for the ideal car to carry out daily duties, be easy enough for the OH to drive, have reasonable running costs and yet at the same time let me have a little play when the rare opportunity presents itself so these 3 choices SHOULD be the ideal candidates, the problem is I don't WANT any of them.

The Golf is just way to boring and clinical in execution and looks, the M135i has a brilliant drive train package but is too ugly for me to even contemplate it, sorry M135i owners, it just is. The A45 is way too expensive for what it is and it's not even that practical for a hatchback, the one I had a poke around had woeful boot space and the rear felt like sitting in a coffin which is two sizes too small, modern cars seem to have this strange reverse Tardis like feature of being bigger on the outside yet smaller on the inside! So despite the article contending that we now have more choice and have never had it so good, I'd strongly beg to differ.

I never had a problem choosing a daily driver before, saloons and hatchbacks were better looking, seemed more practical and you could find cars that really had some fizz to them and I'm not just talking about silly willy-waving horsepower claims. I lament the death of the practical, affordable, good looking performance hatch\saloon.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
the M135i has a brilliant drive train package but is too ugly for me to even contemplate it, sorry M135i owners, it just is.
You shouldn't apologise. Those things are very subjective, you don't like it, some do, some don't care as it's also possible that they mainly care about the way it drives, you never know.

Wolands Advocate

2,493 posts

215 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
I own an M135i and I confess that the first time I saw the official pics of the current 1-series in something like 120d Urban spec, my reaction was "f*** me that's one monstrously ugly car".

But then, when I looked again, it's actually just the front detailing that goes wrong, in particular the spectacularly misbegotten headlamps. The overall design is actually quite shapely - I like the side profile of the 5dr with its rakish and rather old-school cab-back proportions, and the rear is neat enough if perhaps a bit anonymous.

And although the front never really escapes from the oversized "nicked from a depressed 7-series" headlamps, the MSport front bumper fitted to the M135i is a considerable improvement on the horror that afflicts non-MSport 1-series. And an M135i fitted with the nose from an M235i would be a decent-looking car.

Also, it's not really like the A-Class is a looker either. The back is as generic as that of the 1-series, the profile is generic dumpy cab-forward and the nose is unduly bulbous with an overly large grille and headlamps that, whilst better than those of the poor 1-series, are still not particularly attractive.

By contrast, the Golf and the Audi S3 are much more elegant and cohesive designs with no grating details unlike the 1-series and the A-class. However, it's just that both are handsome in that rather bland "Boden catalogue model" sort of way - there's nothing characterful or exciting about them.

V8A*ndy

3,695 posts

190 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
The BMWs being released today will date far less than most other manufacturers design.

I actually think the 1 series is a nice car and looks the part in Mnonsense spec.

However, I also think BMW have made a slightly backward step with some of the tacky plastic chrome trim being stuck onto some models.

Less of that please.

mainaman

413 posts

184 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
Wolands Advocate said:
I can't decide whether you are a blind A45 fan or an M135i denier. The A45 is expensive, fact, get over it. The Golf and BMW are not cheap either, but they are quite a bit cheaper than the Merc and the Merc's nth degree of superiority on a challenging road isn't going to merit the extra wodge in many customer's eyes.

At the end of the day, it's also just personal preference. I greatly like Mercedes as a marque (C63 please, if anyone's offering) but I much prefer a straight six to a four cylinder (on soundtrack grounds if nothing else) and I much prefer a manual to an automatic and I don't need 4WD. And I don't care whether one gets to 60 slightly quicker, given both can knock it off sub-5 seconds. So I wouldn't buy the auto-only A45 even if it and the M135i cost the same amount, let alone where the Merc costs 15-20% more. But that doesn't mean I think the A45 is a bad car or feel that it deserves slating. It's just not one that appeals to my personal preferences.

As for your specific points above, I have had plenty of spirited drives in my M135i, including in the Alps, but not being someone who claims to be God behind the wheel, I have never reached the point where I felt I really needed an LSD, nor have I felt insuffiently supported by the seats. Rest assured, the M135i drives very, very well. I am happy to accept the verdict of others better qualified than me to comment that the A45 is better at the limit on a Yorkshire moor, but that's frankly academic to most owners. Particularly to one like me living in London, where (sadly) very spirited drives consistute a tiny fraction of my driving. So which car has the nth degree of control at the limit is simply immaterial. Whereas the price to have the car optioned to my liking is not immaterial. And on the subject of the seats, no they don't look racey like the ones in the A45, but there's nothing actually wrong with them in terms of bolstering, support and comfort. They are after all sports seats (a boggo 1-series doesn't have them), just not "look at me" one-piece jobs.
It's all down to personal preference really,some people prefer Evos to M3s and vice versa.I don't dislike the M135i,but i don't get it how the Merc is considered too expensive,when it is in fact a 1M rival.I also live in London,but when i venture beyond Epping on a quiet Sunday morning,no cops and speed cameras in sight,it really exposes a car's capabilities and it is not academic.Maybe it is easier for me to reach the limits,because i am driving a slower car.I am sure that the M135i is very enjoyable car up to the limit,but i can also bet that the 1M is more enjoyable at any speed.The guy in a Clio 200 is probably the happiest one on those roads,but for all around capability including comfort the M135i is hard to beat at its price point,esp. with the discounts.Regarding the sports seats,a Fiesta ST come with Recaros,but if you find them good enough,fine.The side bolsters remind me of Alfa 156 GTA ones a little.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
V8A*ndy said:
The BMWs being released today will date far less than most other manufacturers design.
Hmm, of those three I'd say the Golf will probably be the one that ages best because it's so conservative; probably with the BMW second and the Merc worst.

mainaman

413 posts

184 months

Wednesday 30th October 2013
quotequote all
greygoose said:
BMW aren't going to pay warranty costs on tuned engines anyway that is the risk you take if you do something to it.
They have made it this way to discourage tuning and subsequent customer hassle and dispute,it is rumored.I dont know,other manifacturers make very tunable FI engines,so it probably is just a rumour.The M135i owners are (understandingly)happy with the power it makes and it sounds nice,but if they make M435i,it wont cut it.

schaeffs

320 posts

141 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
mainaman said:
It's all down to personal preference really,some people prefer Evos to M3s and vice versa.I don't dislike the M135i,but i don't get it how the Merc is considered too expensive,when it is in fact a 1M rival.I also live in London,but when i venture beyond Epping on a quiet Sunday morning,no cops and speed cameras in sight,it really exposes a car's capabilities and it is not academic.Maybe it is easier for me to reach the limits,because i am driving a slower car.I am sure that the M135i is very enjoyable car up to the limit,but i can also bet that the 1M is more enjoyable at any speed.The guy in a Clio 200 is probably the happiest one on those roads,but for all around capability including comfort the M135i is hard to beat at its price point,esp. with the discounts.Regarding the sports seats,a Fiesta ST come with Recaros,but if you find them good enough,fine.The side bolsters remind me of Alfa 156 GTA ones a little.
Hmmmmm - this vexes me somewhat as I can understand this viewpoint from afar - but have you actually driven both the 1M and the M135i? I have been fortunate enough to have taken both for a spin and as you rightly point out its personal preference - but it is also what suits at a particular point in time over a certain road.

From driving both I would say the 1M in extremis would provide a higher level of driving pleasure - mostly down to the way the chassis is set up (suspension tune), the wheelbase itself and of course the diff. I also noticed that it feels more hyper sensitive in the steering, thumps/jars over uneven surfaces and snuffles at the cambers in the road. If you want a car that's ever alert and eggs you on all the time then that's going to suit you right down to the ground.

For others the M135i feels to me to be a a more mellow steer (it certainly had less steering "feel") it can be switched up and down via settings to suit different road conditions and perhaps its the longer wheelbase or the suspension tune itself but felt to be less hyperactive to the road without totally insulating you from it.

They are both properly quick cars - delivered their power very similarly, although as I tried the ZF box in the M135i - that car felt more "seamless" and quicker. No doubt due to my lack of ability in swapping cogs manually... Speed wise what they aren't is epically fast like a 458 italia - but definitely quick enough and more than quick enough for the thick end of 40k.

So rather than saying the 1M is more enjoyable at any speed, I would instead contend that at plenty of speeds and road conditions and time of day and mood of driver - the M135i would be more enjoyable than the 1M (and with all the new toys it comes with and added practicality of a 5-door a nicer place to be schlepping around in).

Instead - I would say what the M135i can't do is give you that last nth degree of adrenaline hit that the 1M can - when you want to go for broke on a beautiful summers early morning on your favourite b road -- and leave it at that.

V8A*ndy

3,695 posts

190 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
kambites said:
V8A*ndy said:
The BMWs being released today will date far less than most other manufacturers design.
Hmm, of those three I'd say the Golf will probably be the one that ages best because it's so conservative; probably with the BMW second and the Merc worst.
Totally agree although by the time the 1er reaches the LCI stage there will probably be yet another Golf. I honestly believe BMW are the masters of longevity.

Someone here posted that Korean cars looked more stylish than modern German cars. Yep some of them look good but in 5 years time they will look terrible.

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
The 1er LCI is next year.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
V8A*ndy said:
Totally agree although by the time the 1er reaches the LCI stage there will probably be yet another Golf. I honestly believe BMW are the masters of longevity.

Someone here posted that Korean cars looked more stylish than modern German cars. Yep some of them look good but in 5 years time they will look terrible.
Personally, I think Audi beat BMW on the "lasting designs" thing, especially on the recent larger cars. The E60, E63 and E65 look terribly dated to my eye.

Guvernator

13,104 posts

164 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
The 1er LCI is next year.
Anyone know when exactly next year? Can't come soon enough IMO, especially if they manage to craft the front of the new 2 series onto it, I may just buy one then. Hopefully though it won't also come with a price hike!

V8A*ndy

3,695 posts

190 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
The 1er LCI is next year.
I was being sarcastic tongue out

Wolands Advocate

2,493 posts

215 months

Thursday 31st October 2013
quotequote all
mainaman said:
Regarding the sports seats,a Fiesta ST come with Recaros,but if you find them good enough,fine.The side bolsters remind me of Alfa 156 GTA ones a little.
Yes, to be perfectly honest I do. As you may have noticed, I actually owned a 156 GTA. The seats in a GTA are very handsome and purposeful-looking but I have to say that they were never the most comfortable.