RE: The worst used car in Britain
Discussion
Why O why would anyone ever have bought a 1.8 petrol freelander in the first place???? Slow, thirsty and no torque.
I had an 01 TD4 ES from 2004 and sold it to my neighbour in 2008, he still has it and both of us think it's a good car though he has replaced the steering rack recently and had propshaft bother last year. It now has 90k on it.
I did loose a lot of money on it and I actually blame the massive depreciation on the horror stories of the 1.8.
I had an 01 TD4 ES from 2004 and sold it to my neighbour in 2008, he still has it and both of us think it's a good car though he has replaced the steering rack recently and had propshaft bother last year. It now has 90k on it.
I did loose a lot of money on it and I actually blame the massive depreciation on the horror stories of the 1.8.
MJK 24 said:
I think K series production started in 1989, not 1984.
, launched to critical acclaim in the Rover 214. The OMG HGF! problems only started much later (the end of the last millenium or early this one?) when the steel locating dowels for the head were replaced with plastic ones (and one or two other production costs were reduced at the same time *ahem* ) as well as the stretch to 1800cc in which size the engine really began to suffer HGF. But remote 'stats and the resulting stress of a good flush of cold water into the block when it had just warmed up didn't make life any easier for the head gasket (leading to an odd expansion-contraction-expansion cycle for the block and head every cold start); nor did the stretch to 1800cc which reduced the gasket seating area on an engine already arguably developed to its safe, reliable limit in this area in its smaller sizes...
The 'cheap' manufacturing period plus avant garde location of the 'stat doesn't detract from what was a world-beating engine in its smaller guises. That the Freeloader was 'too big' for the engine and put the engine under too much thermal stress for the head gasket isn't really the engine's fault - is it??
LondonSW7 said:
skyrover said:
Jeep grand Cherokees suffer the same problem
Could you elaborate? I was looking at an '04 Grand Cherokee Overland with the quadra-drive system. Does it have the same problem? If so how do I tell if it's about to die?Thanks!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-NP249-249-249J-Transf...
These go bad usually at around 100,000 miles plus or sooner if you fit mismatched tyre sizes to the front an rear.
A swap to the NP 242 transfer case is both (relatively) cheap and easy and recommended to prevent any future problems.
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/techarticles/Solitude...
The jeep you are looking at uses quadra drive, which is a hydraulic clutch system instead of a viscous coupling, so does not have the same problem.
I have to disagree about the petrol freeloader being the worst - my experience of the diesel says that was even worse. I made such regular use of the AA's Relay service (as well as Green Flag and RAC) that I even got rescued by the same bloke on 2 separate occasions a few months and 60 miles apart.
I have owned several unreliable cars in my time but this was by far the most terrifying of the lot. I bought the diesel specifically because I was advised that the BMW engine would be trouble free (unlike the petrol version). My experience has been that any reputation for reliability that this model has gained, is undeserved. The tally of major breakdowns includes: 2 replacement engines, a replacement gearbox, 2 egr valves, fuel pump, turbo, 2 alternators. This is not a full list and all of these were separate and unforced breakdowns, needing a recovery vehicle. Every journey was an adventure, with no certainty of arrival at the destination. I tried to make the car repay the investment I had made in it but eventually had to concede that it was always going to have the better of me and my bank balance. The tragedy was that the basics of the car, beyond its shocking parts quality and horrifying lack of reliability, are really good. The scariest journey was the drive to the car dealer to trade it in. I fully expected that it would have one last laugh and break down on me again. It didn't - but it still got its revenge in a way, as I panicked in my desperation to get rid of it and bought a car that itself proved unsatisfactory, if not as staggeringly awful as the F
lander.
I have owned several unreliable cars in my time but this was by far the most terrifying of the lot. I bought the diesel specifically because I was advised that the BMW engine would be trouble free (unlike the petrol version). My experience has been that any reputation for reliability that this model has gained, is undeserved. The tally of major breakdowns includes: 2 replacement engines, a replacement gearbox, 2 egr valves, fuel pump, turbo, 2 alternators. This is not a full list and all of these were separate and unforced breakdowns, needing a recovery vehicle. Every journey was an adventure, with no certainty of arrival at the destination. I tried to make the car repay the investment I had made in it but eventually had to concede that it was always going to have the better of me and my bank balance. The tragedy was that the basics of the car, beyond its shocking parts quality and horrifying lack of reliability, are really good. The scariest journey was the drive to the car dealer to trade it in. I fully expected that it would have one last laugh and break down on me again. It didn't - but it still got its revenge in a way, as I panicked in my desperation to get rid of it and bought a car that itself proved unsatisfactory, if not as staggeringly awful as the F
lander.mike150 said:
Why O why would anyone ever have bought a 1.8 petrol freelander in the first place???? Slow, thirsty and no torque.
Because for the first 4 years of production the only alternative to the 1.8 was an even worse XDi engine? Remember that the TD4 and V6 engines didn't join the line up until 2001. The bulk of Freelanders sold from 97 to 01 were 1.8's.skyrover said:
LondonSW7 said:
skyrover said:
Jeep grand Cherokees suffer the same problem
Could you elaborate? I was looking at an '04 Grand Cherokee Overland with the quadra-drive system. Does it have the same problem? If so how do I tell if it's about to die?Thanks!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-NP249-249-249J-Transf...
These go bad usually at around 100,000 miles plus or sooner if you fit mismatched tyre sizes to the front an rear.
A swap to the NP 242 transfer case is both (relatively) cheap and easy and recommended to prevent any future problems.
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/techarticles/Solitude...
The jeep you are looking at uses quadra drive, which is a hydraulic clutch system instead of a viscous coupling, so does not have the same problem.
B.J.W said:
Because for the first 4 years of production the only alternative to the 1.8 was an even worse XDi engine? Remember that the TD4 and V6 engines didn't join the line up until 2001. The bulk of Freelanders sold from 97 to 01 were 1.8's.
The XDi used the L-Series Diesel engine. Lovely engine and quite tunable too. Any reason you don like it?I Had a y reg diesel and it lost reverse then found it. I flogged it before it could gouge me.
Found this with 'transmission noise' mmmm i wonder?
URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=1...
Found this with 'transmission noise' mmmm i wonder?
URL: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=1...
StefanVXR8 said:
We have a 2003 2.5 V6 Freelander in the family. It has been flawless in the 6 years we've owned it.
The KV6's rarely suffer HGF and in fact the K in KV6 doesn't actually denote it's a K series because they're not.
To be pedantic the original KV6 (used in the Rover 825 and by Kia to use in one of their SUVs) had a very bad head gasket problem which was completely fixed by a redesign. Any KV6 used in the later Rover products was pretty reliable with no inherent head gasket problems, though the rather complex inlet plenum with two sets of motor controlled valves was a bit of a weak point.The KV6's rarely suffer HGF and in fact the K in KV6 doesn't actually denote it's a K series because they're not.
B.J.W said:
skyrover said:
land rover's darkest hour... and they've glued together some utter sh!t in their time.
Perhaps, but wasn't the Freelander also the car that precipitated the turn around in LR's fortunes from 98 onwards? The problem was the poor execution which took a little while to reveal itself.
The same car with quality parts (lets assume toyota) would be a totally different animal.
TVR Sagaris said:
Has anyone ever seen a Freelander with its roof off? Like in the picture.
Yup. I had a 3 door with the removable hard top (not the canvas variant). The roof came off once. It was a two man job to take it on and off and extremely heavy and fiddly. It never came off again. Ref the XDi - when I was buying a freelander I was warned off the XDi as being underpowered (97 bhp), agricultural and not particularly economical.
B.J.W said:
Yup. I had a 3 door with the removable hard top (not the canvas variant). The roof came off once. It was a two man job to take it on and off and extremely heavy and fiddly. It never came off again.
Oddly finding a soft top one is very difficult, no idea why. Such a shame as I think it's the spec I'd have gone for.B.J.W said:
Ref the XDi - when I was buying a freelander I was warned off the XDi as being underpowered (97 bhp), agricultural and not particularly economical.
I think you were being mislead. While the 1.8 is certainly the quicker of the two engines, I personally preferred how the L-Series drove. I also think it's a nicer engine than the Td4 and it was the most economical engine fitted to the Freelander.
FYI
These K series had water/heating/cooling issues from the very first days of production. I know this as I was involved in an early rapid prototyping project to redesign the thermostat housings & position etc, testing water flows & temps. At the time we didn't know who the client was though we soon figured it out.
A friend of mine who worked at a dealership in NI used to fit new head gaskets on PDI's on a regular weekly basis on cars that were often not even sold yet!!! So your shiny new Rover was often borked & repaired before you ever drove it
It does mean the L Series diesel ones which don't suffer HGF are cheap though!!
These K series had water/heating/cooling issues from the very first days of production. I know this as I was involved in an early rapid prototyping project to redesign the thermostat housings & position etc, testing water flows & temps. At the time we didn't know who the client was though we soon figured it out.
A friend of mine who worked at a dealership in NI used to fit new head gaskets on PDI's on a regular weekly basis on cars that were often not even sold yet!!! So your shiny new Rover was often borked & repaired before you ever drove it
It does mean the L Series diesel ones which don't suffer HGF are cheap though!!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff