RE: Chris Harris video: 911 Turbo vs McLaren 12C

RE: Chris Harris video: 911 Turbo vs McLaren 12C

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DT398

1,745 posts

147 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
Love to know what the back story is! I think I was there for the days this was shot.

And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.

No idea what your beef is with the veracity of the drag race. It's there in the pictures. Obviously we have to patch various shots of different runs to make the narrative flow properly, but otherwise it's just two cars, launch control, and go. You can't fake that, don't quite understand why I'd ever want to.

I really, really like the 991 Turbo S - far more than the old 997. Have said so all along, wrote it here a month back and said so in the video.

Although after a decade of being accused of being paid by Porsche, I have to say your rabid and of course wholly offensive assertion that I'm somehow now in McLaren's pocket actually makes quite a refreshing change.

Have a good weekend. Enjoy your rather excellent car.
That's a great video but you are starting to sound a bit like Robert Peston in the early narrative. To be avoided at all costs! ;-)

DonkeyApple

54,920 posts

168 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
_Batty_ said:
What's happening Jan?
Other than New Years.
Chuck Norris stops begging APOLLO for forgiveness?

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.
Interesting. Partly because it would only do 2 launches before having a sit down (bit too much "supercar" and not enough "everyday" perhaps) and secondly that McLaren are STILL worried enough about the car to send a team with it. I would guess that Merc, BMW and Audi take the same point as Porsche. "Here's the car. We'll be back to pick it up in 4 days"

Big Piston

5 posts

149 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
Love to know what the back story is! I think I was there for the days this was shot.

And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.

No idea what your beef is with the veracity of the drag race. It's there in the pictures. Obviously we have to patch various shots of different runs to make the narrative flow properly, but otherwise it's just two cars, launch control, and go. You can't fake that, don't quite understand why I'd ever want to.

I really, really like the 991 Turbo S - far more than the old 997. Have said so all along, wrote it here a month back and said so in the video.

Although after a decade of being accused of being paid by Porsche, I have to say your rabid and of course wholly offensive assertion that I'm somehow now in McLaren's pocket actually makes quite a refreshing change.

Have a good weekend. Enjoy your rather excellent car.
Love the Vids Chris and watch every one! However, I think this is the kind of additional information that you should include in your vid.

I find it amazing that the Porka can manage 15 consecutive launches, yet the Macca can only manage a couple. This impacts my view on the car as a whole - particularly given the comment at the start that McLaren didn't mind their convertible being tested against a coupe and the associations of sublime confidence of their product (yet they felt the need to attend the filming)?!!!


Keep up the good work.




Dblue

3,252 posts

199 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
Chris Harris said:
And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.
Interesting. Partly because it would only do 2 launches before having a sit down (bit too much "supercar" and not enough "everyday" perhaps) and secondly that McLaren are STILL worried enough about the car to send a team with it. I would guess that Merc, BMW and Audi take the same point as Porsche. "Here's the car. We'll be back to pick it up in 4 days"
Well McLaren are Down the road for a start but the repeated use of LC in such a way is hardly an indication of everyday use now is it?
And Ferrari routinely do the same.

EskimoArapaho

5,135 posts

134 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Dblue said:
Rich_W said:
Chris Harris said:
And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.
Interesting. Partly because it would only do 2 launches before having a sit down (bit too much "supercar" and not enough "everyday" perhaps) and secondly that McLaren are STILL worried enough about the car to send a team with it. I would guess that Merc, BMW and Audi take the same point as Porsche. "Here's the car. We'll be back to pick it up in 4 days"
Well McLaren are Down the road for a start but the repeated use of LC in such a way is hardly an indication of everyday use now is it?
And Ferrari routinely do the same.
Indeed, Ferrari did it so much so that some journo had a right old go at them for doing it. Now, who was that...?

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Dblue said:
Well McLaren are Down the road for a start but the repeated use of LC in such a way is hardly an indication of everyday use now is it?
Yet Porsche think it might be. Or at least suspect that some components should be stronger as standard smile


Dblue said:
And Ferrari routinely do the same.
See point above about "journo upset" an other point by poster father up about "confidence a Spyder would be fine against the 991 coupe" Makes them look silly to be confident about that, but not reliability. confused



Edited by Rich_W on Friday 29th November 20:58

jmcc500

644 posts

217 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Chris Harris said:
And the Porsche used launch control on every launch. Which means to get all the angles it did 15 consecutive launches without any trouble whatsoever. Imagine how strong the powertrain is to do that? Mighty impressive. The 12C would do 2 launches and then needed to have a clutch re-think before running again. McLaren were there with the car. Porsche weren't.
I find this quite odd. I was involved in the 12C development a couple of years ago and one of the tests I had to do on hot trip in Arizona was repeated launch control starts in 35deg ambient temperatures. We were doing the full bananas launch, accelerating to 100km/h, then braking down to do another. We were able to do substantially more than two starts in a row before having to let the clutch cool a little. Maybe something has happened in the interim, but sounds like there could have been something amiss on the day.

And yes, that was an AWESOME day at work...

Edited by jmcc500 on Friday 29th November 21:24

lauda

3,446 posts

206 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
This thread just keeps on giving! Just seen Harris's Twitter feed where he appears to refer to APOLO1 as a 'Berkshire hunt'....

Dblue

3,252 posts

199 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
Dblue said:
Well McLaren are Down the road for a start but the repeated use of LC in such a way is hardly an indication of everyday use now is it?
Yet Porsche think it might be. Or at least suspect that some components should be stronger as standard smile


Dblue said:
And Ferrari routinely do the same.
See point above about "journo upset" an other point by poster father up about "confidence a Spyder would be fine against the 991 coupe" Makes them look silly to be confident about that, but not reliability. confused



Edited by Rich_W on Friday 29th November 20:58
Ok, Now I'm a Porsche fan but are we going to get in to Porsche's mechanical fallibility are we.
You've not heard the odd whisper about a couple of rather major issues then. Do the letters IMS and RMS or the phrase "bore scoring" not ring any bells?

Until I hear about any McLaren's having to have drastic engine out fixes done to their motors I'll remain unworried about their ability to run multiple back to back max attack launches without the clutch needing a re-boot.


GALLARDOGUY

8,160 posts

218 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
The original phrase is Berkeley Hunt but nevertheless, that's classic!!

Mutton

375 posts

221 months

Friday 29th November 2013
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Enjoyed the video (although it would have been nice to have had lap times for both). Glad that Chris has posted to clarify something that really didn't need clarifying in the first place..
Sounds like everyone including Chris is waiting with great anticipation about the bombshell that is going to hit in January lol!

J4CKO

41,279 posts

199 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
lauda said:
This thread just keeps on giving! Just seen Harris's Twitter feed where he appears to refer to APOLO1 as a 'Berkshire hunt'....
Perhaps a bit unnecessary in relation to a discussion about cars.

lauda

3,446 posts

206 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Perhaps a bit unnecessary in relation to a discussion about cars.
I think his issue is more to do with the questioning of his professional integrity and objectivity as a motoring journalist (of which there have been several instances on this thread, none of which seem to have any basis) than anything else. Which I imagine must wear pretty thin after a while.

Interesting article by Andrew Frankel on the Motorsport website earlier this week on the same subject:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinio...

Scott Parker

798 posts

220 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
I can't forgive Mclaren for putting an open diff in the car, don't care how much electronic trickery is going on....open diff!!!!

0a

23,879 posts

193 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
So is the general verdict seems to be that the 911 turbo has lost its niche: it used to be a way of getting supercar performance on the cheap, now it's just a 911 priced like a supercar... ?

J4CKO

41,279 posts

199 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
lauda said:
J4CKO said:
Perhaps a bit unnecessary in relation to a discussion about cars.
I think his issue is more to do with the questioning of his professional integrity and objectivity as a motoring journalist (of which there have been several instances on this thread, none of which seem to have any basis) than anything else. Which I imagine must wear pretty thin after a while.

Interesting article by Andrew Frankel on the Motorsport website earlier this week on the same subject:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/road-cars/opinio...
He gets to wang about in supercars and get paid for it, I think I could grin and bear the occasional bit of criticism with resorting to hunting based lady garden references, I only call people s in the Lounge where it is more or less expected biggrin

DT398

1,745 posts

147 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
0a said:
So is the general verdict seems to be that the 911 turbo has lost its niche: it used to be a way of getting supercar performance on the cheap, now it's just a 911 priced like a supercar... ?
That's probably a bit harsh. It's at least £50k cheaper than the McLaren, and will give most supercars (including the 12c) a run for their money in pretty much every real-world situation. Less than 3 seconds to 60 mph is up there with the best of them. Running costs are also way less than the vast majority of supercars too.

Edited by DT398 on Friday 29th November 22:19

J4CKO

41,279 posts

199 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
0a said:
So is the general verdict seems to be that the 911 turbo has lost its niche: it used to be a way of getting supercar performance on the cheap, now it's just a 911 priced like a supercar... ?
Nah, will still sell, its the VW Golf of the Supercar world, still fantastic, just a few things have caught up or passed, not really any less relevant.

tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Friday 29th November 2013
quotequote all
0a said:
So is the general verdict seems to be that the 911 turbo has lost its niche: it used to be a way of getting supercar performance on the cheap, now it's just a 911 priced like a supercar... ?
Never thought of the 996/7 turbo S as cheap when new. Remember the 991 its still £100+k cheaper than other supercars when they are kitted out in the same way. I always thought of the secondhand 996/7 Turbo as relatively cheap and reliable blindlying fast cars, with lots of good indys to service them.

If you want a cheap supercar, you need to look towards the GTR.

Interesting comment by monkey harris on the 991 being able to handle several full power launches on the trot. It wasn't that long ago that lesser powered supercars were fairly fragile and usually required serious fettling between motoring journo workouts.