Winter tyres vol 2
Discussion
mstrbkr said:
Not just insurers, you'd think the transport secretary would be on the case making sure people had quality tyres on.
Unfortunately, forcing the use of 'safe' tyres would result in manufacturers producing tyres which meet some official test and gaming the system just as car manufacturers do for CO2 emissions.We would be offered tyres with brilliant 'on paper' abilities which were mediocre on roads.
Most decent winter tyres only achieve a 'C' rating for wet grip and most decent all-season tyres achieve 'B'. They would probably be deemed 'inadequate' and we would all have to drive with tyres which were 'A' rated.
Another thing to consider is that premium brands try to make their tyres retain good performance throughout the tread wear compared to cheaper tyres which can see significant declines in performance even with only slight wear.
But don't worry, my local tyre place can fit you A-wet-rated weird-name tyres for £45 apiece all-inclusive.
Evanivitch said:
Pica-Pica said:
Evanivitch said:
Perhaps we don't need a national policy, but if insurance companies begin to see a trend in cars without winter/all-season tyres having more incidents then we might see the market make the first move. This could easily be reflected in your post code too.
But if the post code is anything like weather forecast that won’t help. Would the post code be where the accident occurred or where the car was registered? No doubt an algorithm could be generated (or added into existing insurance algorithm).It's a fair point that winter tyres might encourage driving that otherwise wouldn't happen, but only the insurance company data could determine that.
Ron99 said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!
Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Win...
Evanivitch said:
Ron99 said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!
Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Win...
https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/dr...
Ron99 said:
Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.
Yes, would agree with that. The problem is for some reason people get bogged down in absolutes. Every tyre is a compromise at some point so just choose the one you are happy with. I don’t know why there is the need for so much teeth gnashing!
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Bridgestone don't recommend it, not sure about other manufacturers.
https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/dr...
Of course. But they reasons they give only further enforce the previous comment that winters all year round is probably safer than summers all year round.https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/dr...
Evanivitch said:
Of course. But they reasons they give only further enforce the previous comment that winters all year round is probably safer than summers all year round.
Why? The vast majority of driving happens when summers are safer as do most accidents. For one tyre all year summers are clearly mathematically the safest being better for most of the time despite being significantly worse for some. All seasons will come closer and winters bring up the rear. Of course, if an individual priority is for snow and very cold weather performance that's a different matter. Graveworm said:
Why? The vast majority of driving happens when summers are safer as do most accidents. For one tyre all year summers are clearly mathematically the safest being better for most of the time despite being significantly worse for some. All seasons will come closer and winters bring up the rear. Of course, if an individual priority is for snow and very cold weather performance that's a different matter.
I think you've misunderstood what winter tyres are.Winter tyres often give better performance in the wet and at temperatures below 8C. So October/November through to March/April (especially early mornings) temperatures and many areas seeing 50% of days having rain.
The point being, the performance of a winter tyre is perhaps 10% worse in dry and warm, bit the performance of a summer tyre in cold and wet is significantly worse.
Evanivitch said:
I think you've misunderstood what winter tyres are.
Winter tyres often give better performance in the wet and at temperatures below 8C. So October/November through to March/April (especially early mornings) temperatures and many areas seeing 50% of days having rain.
The point being, the performance of a winter tyre is perhaps 10% worse in dry and warm, bit the performance of a summer tyre in cold and wet is significantly worse.
I kind of understand and have been running both for many years, Winter tyres often give better performance in the wet and at temperatures below 8C. So October/November through to March/April (especially early mornings) temperatures and many areas seeing 50% of days having rain.
The point being, the performance of a winter tyre is perhaps 10% worse in dry and warm, bit the performance of a summer tyre in cold and wet is significantly worse.
Summer tyres give significantly better performance in the rain unless it's also very cold. Not sure where you get the always better in the wet from,
Winters give better wet performance when the AVERAGE is below 7 or at spot temperatures below 3 depending on which manufacturer you ask and that's about the same thing in most cases.
This was at 15 degrees.
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-All-Se...
And this just over 7
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/93...
Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 16th November 16:48
From my experience as a tyre developer/tester summer tyres generally have more grip than winter tyres, even at temperatures below 7C. On snow winter tyres have hugely more grip.
You can rig tyre tests to show otherwise, though. Picking a very smooth/slick friction surface will often get a better result for winter tyres.
You can rig tyre tests to show otherwise, though. Picking a very smooth/slick friction surface will often get a better result for winter tyres.
Ron99 said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!
Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.mstrbkr said:
0-5 seconds is one of the options in autotrader's search options for acceleration. The next category up is 0-8 seconds. It's crap.
You can change it to what you want manually, add "&zero-to-60=TO_6" to the url, replace 6 with what 0-60 you want, so &zero-to-60=TO_7 would be under 7 seconds.You have to re add it after every page change, so it still not the best but at least it's something.
Edited by kilerkg on Saturday 16th November 16:12
I would say summers are Ok down to about 3 degrees (as shown on local weather readings, which equates to 4 degrees first thing. That is my experience.
I have recorded our local temperatures over the last two years. On the basis that summer tyres are OK down to 3 degrees, and winters are OK up to 11 degrees, and either in between, for me (coastal North Wales) then summers are best for 31 weeks, either for 19, and winters best for 2 weeks. Within those two weeks, there were only two days of frosty/icy roads. Hence, my 335d has summers, my wife’s Fabia has Quatrac 5 all-seasons, so that would mean there are no days when the weather was undrivable, and four days where we decided to use the Fabia. that also means it will be cheaper if an accident should occur, and no road grit thrown up on my car!
I have recorded our local temperatures over the last two years. On the basis that summer tyres are OK down to 3 degrees, and winters are OK up to 11 degrees, and either in between, for me (coastal North Wales) then summers are best for 31 weeks, either for 19, and winters best for 2 weeks. Within those two weeks, there were only two days of frosty/icy roads. Hence, my 335d has summers, my wife’s Fabia has Quatrac 5 all-seasons, so that would mean there are no days when the weather was undrivable, and four days where we decided to use the Fabia. that also means it will be cheaper if an accident should occur, and no road grit thrown up on my car!
Very technical!
I just worked on the basis that my last set of Dunlop SportMaxx were utterly crap when faced with anything bar clean tarmac and we're actually frighteningly bad on any sort of reduced grip surface. Getting stuck on level, damp grass was the final straw.
So for me it's less about summer / winter and the possibility we may / may not get snow this year and frankly, that doesn't really bother me... what bothers me is living in a part of the world that has a wet climate, muddy roads and wanting a tyre that offers the best grip for as many conditions. As mentioned, it's about peak of 5degs here but wet and muddy and changing to Ultragrips has made a marked improvement.
I just worked on the basis that my last set of Dunlop SportMaxx were utterly crap when faced with anything bar clean tarmac and we're actually frighteningly bad on any sort of reduced grip surface. Getting stuck on level, damp grass was the final straw.
So for me it's less about summer / winter and the possibility we may / may not get snow this year and frankly, that doesn't really bother me... what bothers me is living in a part of the world that has a wet climate, muddy roads and wanting a tyre that offers the best grip for as many conditions. As mentioned, it's about peak of 5degs here but wet and muddy and changing to Ultragrips has made a marked improvement.
Davie said:
Very technical!
I just worked on the basis that my last set of Dunlop SportMaxx were utterly crap when faced with anything bar clean tarmac and we're actually frighteningly bad on any sort of reduced grip surface. Getting stuck on level, damp grass was the final straw.
So for me it's less about summer / winter and the possibility we may / may not get snow this year and frankly, that doesn't really bother me... what bothers me is living in a part of the world that has a wet climate, muddy roads and wanting a tyre that offers the best grip for as many conditions. As mentioned, it's about peak of 5degs here but wet and muddy and changing to Ultragrips has made a marked improvement.
I recall getting my E36 RWD with Conti summer tyres off wet grass, when SUVs were getting stuck. I had no time to check if they were AWD or what tyres they had, I was away and gone! Driving on (sound) wet grass is just technique.I just worked on the basis that my last set of Dunlop SportMaxx were utterly crap when faced with anything bar clean tarmac and we're actually frighteningly bad on any sort of reduced grip surface. Getting stuck on level, damp grass was the final straw.
So for me it's less about summer / winter and the possibility we may / may not get snow this year and frankly, that doesn't really bother me... what bothers me is living in a part of the world that has a wet climate, muddy roads and wanting a tyre that offers the best grip for as many conditions. As mentioned, it's about peak of 5degs here but wet and muddy and changing to Ultragrips has made a marked improvement.
Countdown said:
I wish people wouldn’t say that tyres were “lethal”. They’re not. It’s incompetent drivers that are lethal.
I'm not sure what's incompetent about driving along an NSL road in the dark, with driving rain and having two wagons approach only to hit standing water and the car aquaplane and be dragged towards the kerb before deciding "Nope, these tyres are past their best" I could give several examples of where the car was being driven competently and yet the tyres were struggling for grip and felt like control had been compromised. To me that's pretty lethal and I'm not really sure what driver competency would have to do with it?
Sometimes I wish people wouldn't be so picky and act like such driving Gods... right up there with the bellends who scoff at winter tyres and instead state "driving slower" is the solution.
Pica-Pica said:
I recall getting my E36 RWD with Conti summer tyres off wet grass, when SUVs were getting stuck. I had no time to check if they were AWD or what tyres they had, I was away and gone! Driving on (sound) wet grass is just technique.
Fair enough. Change 'wet grass' to 'snow' and thus thread suddenly becomes pointless and you become that person who thinks a lack grip from a tyre can be overcome by driving slower? This is why this place is going to the dogs... you give a personal opinion based on experience and some boorish type wades in to point out that you must be lacking in the driving skills department rather than accept that tyres can be compromised when faced with conditions that aren't 'normal' and that there are tyres that are better suited to such conditions than others.Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff