Winter tyres vol 2

[popeyewhite]

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

[Pica-Pica]

Turbojuice said:

Radial refers to the internal construction of the tyre, it has nothing to do with the tread pattern. All modern road car tyres are radial.

Indeed. Vredestein Quatrac 5 all-seasons are non-direction, but asymmetric. The outer tread surface has more or less a summer sipe pattern, and the inner tread surface more sipes, thus similar to a winter tyre. The outer tread thus helps when more loaded in summer cornering,

[Sparkov]

popeyewhite said:

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

Might not be as much of a difference as you think between winters and summers in the dry, once the winters wear a bit:

New VS 4mm VS 2mm All Season Tyre Performance

Makes sense that they could perhaps give better grip due to their softer compound once the disadvantage of their tall siped tread blocks diminishes.

[monthefish]

Kawasicki said:

monthefish said:

Ron99 said:

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!

Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.

Definitely.

I think, to crash in summer on winter tyres, where tyre choice is a significant causal factor in the crash, you would have to be really going some.
Winter tyres in summer don't feel right, but I've never even been close to losing grip as a result. (not that I do this on a regular basis, but have experienced this situation)

On the other hand, in bad winter conditions it is easy to lose control at <30mph on summer tyres without pushing it particularly hard (where winter tyres would have prevented the loss of control).


Neither situation is optimum ('winters in summer', or 'summers in winter'), but 'winters in summer' is surely the lesser of two evils.

You seem to think that the only advantage of grip is to support “pushing it”. How about emergency stops?

Emergency stops.
I'd still rather be on winter tyres in summer, than summer tyres in winter.

Would you rather the opposite?

[popeyewhite]

Sparkov said:

popeyewhite said:

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

Might not be as much of a difference as you think between winters and summers in the dry, once the winters wear a bit:

New VS 4mm VS 2mm All Season Tyre Performance

Makes sense that they could perhaps give better grip due to their softer compound once the disadvantage of their tall siped tread blocks diminishes.

Like you say, makes sense, and it's nearer to a full blown summer performance tyre. But that test only features all - seasons. Pit an all-season against a summer performance tyre of any depth and I reckon in the dry the summer performance tyre will have the clear edge. And they will, be rubbish in snow, I know because I've tried it on various cars. With one exception actually, my 911 performed better then expected on snow. RWD with engine hanging out the back helped.

[Kawasicki]

popeyewhite said:

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

I am questioning that. On a very cold, dry road I think summers would stop faster than winters most of the time.

[popeyewhite]

Kawasicki said:

popeyewhite said:

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

I am questioning that. On a very cold, dry road I think summers would stop faster than winters most of the time.

Any experts around?

[anonymous-user]

monthefish said:

Kawasicki said:

monthefish said:

Ron99 said:

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!

Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.

Definitely.

I think, to crash in summer on winter tyres, where tyre choice is a significant causal factor in the crash, you would have to be really going some.
Winter tyres in summer don't feel right, but I've never even been close to losing grip as a result. (not that I do this on a regular basis, but have experienced this situation)

On the other hand, in bad winter conditions it is easy to lose control at <30mph on summer tyres without pushing it particularly hard (where winter tyres would have prevented the loss of control).


Neither situation is optimum ('winters in summer', or 'summers in winter'), but 'winters in summer' is surely the lesser of two evils.

You seem to think that the only advantage of grip is to support “pushing it”. How about emergency stops?

Emergency stops.
I'd still rather be on winter tyres in summer, than summer tyres in winter.

Would you rather the opposite?

I hope you aren't ever behind me on the motorway and I have to perform an emergency stop!

Plus manufacturers don't recommend it. Not sure where you'd stand insurance wise if you were involved in a fatal accident. Worth thinking about....

https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tire-knowled...

[Graveworm]

popeyewhite said:

Any experts around?

There have been many tests posted here and a tyre tester has posted. I don't think any have found that winters do better in the dry than the reference summer, it usually wins by a significant margin; the summer usually wins even in wet braking but that's closer.

[popeyewhite]

Graveworm said:

popeyewhite said:

Any experts around?

There have been many tests posted here and a tyre tester has posted. I don't think any have found that winters do better in the dry than the reference summer, it usually wins by a significant margin; the summer usually wins even in wet braking but that's closer.

Thanks.

[Ron99]

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

I hope you aren't ever behind me on the motorway and I have to perform an emergency stop!

Have you taken into account the large number of cars which might be behind you using 'ditchfinder' brand summer tyres, or questionably legal summer tyres?
On the motorway a lot of the aforementioned cars will be following far too closely behind you anyway, therefore unable to stop whatever tyres they have.

And on a wet motorway, the stopping ability of a winter tyre often won't be significantly worse than a summer tyre.
In a 2018 test, when used as benchmarks for an all-season tyre test, in wet braking Conti Winter Contact proved to have a 13% *shorter* stopping distance than Conti Premium Contact. In dry braking the Conti Prem had a 16% shorter stopping distance.

But is an accident more likely to happen on a dry motorway or a wet motorway?

[Kawasicki]

monthefish said:

Kawasicki said:

monthefish said:

Ron99 said:

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

Works both ways tbh. How about the people that think it's ok to drive on winter tyres in summer? That is something that the manufacturers definitely don't advise!

Ironically, I think winter tyres in summer are safer than summer tyres in winter.

Definitely.

I think, to crash in summer on winter tyres, where tyre choice is a significant causal factor in the crash, you would have to be really going some.
Winter tyres in summer don't feel right, but I've never even been close to losing grip as a result. (not that I do this on a regular basis, but have experienced this situation)

On the other hand, in bad winter conditions it is easy to lose control at <30mph on summer tyres without pushing it particularly hard (where winter tyres would have prevented the loss of control).


Neither situation is optimum ('winters in summer', or 'summers in winter'), but 'winters in summer' is surely the lesser of two evils.

You seem to think that the only advantage of grip is to support “pushing it”. How about emergency stops?

Emergency stops.
I'd still rather be on winter tyres in summer, than summer tyres in winter.

Would you rather the opposite?

Yes.

[B'stard Child]

Sparkov said:

popeyewhite said:

Turbojuice said:

True but when it gets very cold, winters will be better than summers in the dry too

I'm not questioning that, just the reasoning for suggesting winters in summer might be a good idea.

Might not be as much of a difference as you think between winters and summers in the dry, once the winters wear a bit:

New VS 4mm VS 2mm All Season Tyre Performance

Makes sense that they could perhaps give better grip due to their softer compound once the disadvantage of their tall siped tread blocks diminishes.

m

From memory once they are below 4mm or it might be 3mm they are far less effective as winters so whenever I have winters that have got to that point I use them up in the spring/summer before refitting the summers.

That way I've got a full mileage out of them and I can get the rims shod with a fresh set at off season prices and I'm ready for the following winter with being compromised by a worn out set

[jon-]

It's taken over a year of work, but next week I should be testing wet and dry braking of summer, crossclimate, all season, winter, nordic winter at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 15c.

Fingers crossed it actually gives some usable data.

[Graveworm]

jon- said:

It's taken over a year of work, but next week I should be testing wet and dry braking of summer, crossclimate, all season, winter, nordic winter at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 15c.

Fingers crossed it actually gives some usable data.

That is a great idea. Thanks for that and all you do.

[Turbojuice]

jon- said:

It's taken over a year of work, but next week I should be testing wet and dry braking of summer, crossclimate, all season, winter, nordic winter at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 15c.

Fingers crossed it actually gives some usable data.

Fantastic stuff Jon! Should be an extremely interesting video and add answers to some long running debates.

[Ron99]

jon- said:

It's taken over a year of work, but next week I should be testing wet and dry braking of summer, crossclimate, all season, winter, nordic winter at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 15c.

Fingers crossed it actually gives some usable data.

I hope it goes well and look forward to seeing the results.

[bolidemichael]

Bloody hell, this thread doesn't evolve. It just goes round and round! I'm out!

[Mr Tidy]

Yes, I'm out too.

They just work better on any RWD car IME, but if you want to crash please feel free to do so - as long as you stay out of my way!

[A.J.M]

Got a set of Bridgestones Weather control A005 for my gf’s Polo.

The CrossClimates were unavailable in time so we got these.
Seem decent enough and if it keeps her safe then all is well.