RE: Lotus Exige Cup: Review

[Shnozz]

pthelazyjourno said:

In fairness, some of the special edition S1 Elises were getting on for £40k, let alone the Exige, and that was 13 years ago!

Jesus Christ! I remember putting a deposit on one back in 1996 when I was an 18 year old yoof. I'm sure it was £19.5k on the road including driving lights and a couple of other small add-ons.

[mgbond]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Agreed. Although that Noble's engine had been done by Roush who are one of the world's leading performance engine boosters. He said it had two small turbos instead of one big one so they would spool up faster and suppress lag.

http://www.roushperformance.com/engines/

That is correct and they are GT25 turbos so faster spool.

Monkey doesn't lie. Lol

[pthelazyjourno]

Shnozz said:

Jesus Christ! I remember putting a deposit on one back in 1996 when I was an 18 year old yoof. I'm sure it was £19.5k on the road including driving lights and a couple of other small add-ons.

The standard price went up a couple of grand quite quickly IIRC - think mine was about £22, £23k without driving lights, mats etc. Mine's a '99 - wonder if the price went north when they changed the clams slightly - ditched the boot box, tweaked the front lights etc.

I remember talking to somebody who spent £35k on a new S160. I don't know what other options he had, but if you take that as a rough starting point (+/- a couple of £k) and consider that Lotus offered a VHPD 190 upgrade for many thousands, it'd be easy to break £40k.

Scary stuff! Suppose that's why the S190 is pretty rare!

[mgbond]

flatfour said:

lets not forget that a 280bhp is S2 Exige is in a fairly high state of tune and the 350bhp Exige V6 is not stretched that far. 450bhp can be achieved with fairly minor modifications... 420bhp is an off the shelf upgrade from Hangar 111.

That's interesting as the guy who rented out the cup R (Track-Group) said that 400 would be safe, anymore I think he said puts the drive train at risk?

If there are people offering tunes to 450 then I may well re visit this in a few years time.

I was going to build a 3.0 lump over time to 550 for the Nob. Food for thought.

[RobM77]

I find the comparisons between the V6 and the 4 cyl strange. I had my heart set on changing my Elise for an Exige back in 2012 to do more track days and I drove three 4 cyl Exiges, including an RGB, and whilst they were better to drive and faster than my Elise, I wasn't impressed enough to buy one. However, I tried the V6 Exige and was blown away by the extra power and the setup of the car. I've just checked the acceleration figures and it's 7.9s 0-100mph on the standard V6 (so I guess mid to high 7s for the Cup?), and 9.9 secs for the Exige 260. The extra torque of the V6 really makes itself felt in the real world too. To me it seemed night and day at the time. I eventually bought a 2-Eleven, as I couldn't stretch to an Exige V6, and I heard the exact same thing with that: 4 cyl Exige owners saying a standard Exige S was quicker than a 2-11. Strange. I guess perceptions vary? The numbers don't lie though.

[bobo]

The Pits said:

Here's some Exige V6 Cup in the dry (in places) around Hethel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQZLURppco

Some dry footage at Donington too before the heavens opened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kULvMcStIUY

Then this happened!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5OAeDzU7Ls

loving those

[mgbond]

The Pits said:

Here's some Exige V6 Cup in the dry (in places) around Hethel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQZLURppco

Some dry footage at Donington too before the heavens opened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kULvMcStIUY

Then this happened!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5OAeDzU7Ls

Very nice, was getting the hang of towards the end in the wet. I'm no expert and find it hard to keep the back out on the Noble, my old Elise was a nightmare as it would just throw you back the other way.

This seems to behave a bit like the Noble!

[srob]

Shnozz said:

Jesus Christ! I remember putting a deposit on one back in 1996 when I was an 18 year old yoof. I'm sure it was £19.5k on the road including driving lights and a couple of other small add-ons.

Which equates to over £31,000 for a boggo 118bhp Elise today, according to this inflation calculator site

[Shnozz]

RobM77 said:

I find the comparisons between the V6 and the 4 cyl strange. I had my heart set on changing my Elise for an Exige back in 2012 to do more track days and I drove three 4 cyl Exiges, including an RGB, and whilst they were better to drive and faster than my Elise, I wasn't impressed enough to buy one. However, I tried the V6 Exige and was blown away by the extra power and the setup of the car. I've just checked the acceleration figures and it's 7.9s 0-100mph on the standard V6 (so I guess mid to high 7s for the Cup?), and 9.9 secs for the Exige 260. The extra torque of the V6 really makes itself felt in the real world too. To me it seemed night and day at the time. I eventually bought a 2-Eleven, as I couldn't stretch to an Exige V6, and I heard the exact same thing with that: 4 cyl Exige owners saying a standard Exige S was quicker than a 2-11. Strange. I guess perceptions vary? The numbers don't lie though.

When it comes to Lotus 0-100 and Hethel lap times, I'd say the numbers lie considerably.

[RobM77]

Shnozz said:

When it comes to Lotus 0-100 and Hethel lap times, I'd say the numbers lie considerably.

But if they're all Hethel times, would they not be accurate relative to each other? They do their times one up, whereas magazines have a passenger; that makes a fair difference.

All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.

[JDMDrifter]

I really like this. A proper all round car that would monster a track day

[The Pits]

Here are the approximate Exige times around Hethel with factory drivers:

Exige Cup 260: 1.37

Exige V6S - 1.32

Exige V6 Cup - 1.30

Exige V6 Cup R (with paddleshift) - 1.25!

Best I could do was around 1.45 but it was damp and they put a chicane in the windsock corner. Still, only 15 seconds short!!!

I'm convinced I could go under 1.40 with a dry track and no windsock chicane. With more aggressive braking than I'd normally use on a trackday and more experience of the track I could well imagine somewhere around 1.38ish but that's still slower than a Cup 260 with a proper driver and 8 secs off what a V6 Cup is capable of! I literally have no idea where the pros are finding that sort of time. Humbling stuff!

[Shnozz]

RobM77 said:

Shnozz said:

When it comes to Lotus 0-100 and Hethel lap times, I'd say the numbers lie considerably.

But if they're all Hethel times, would they not be accurate relative to each other? They do their times one up, whereas magazines have a passenger; that makes a fair difference.

All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.

Quelle surprise. Your 4 pot Yota engined car feels in line in performance to the V6, but in turn the V6 feels considerably fast than the 4 pot Yota engined Exige.

Yes, 120 kg is a fair old chunk between the 211 and the Zige and the equivalent of lugging around an 18 stone salad dodger, but even still. I should have a drive of the V6 to compare but I have no intention of buying one and am not one to waste dealer's resources for interest alone. No doubt I will have an opportunity at some point once one of my Lotus chums parts with the cash. For now I'll have to make do with the measly 240ish bhp.

As for the lap times, no, I do not think they are relative to one another. They seem nothing more than marketing guff that has become so predictable it has become the source of a wry smirks every time a new model/ltd edition rolls out of Hethel.

[Captain Muppet]

Shnozz said:

As for the lap times, no, I do not think they are relative to one another.

Which track? Hethel pre-Bahar or Hethel post-Bahar?

I'd assume the different layout and surface would make comparing the two impossible. I'm basing this assumption on no data at all though.

[Shnozz]

Captain Muppet said:

Shnozz said:

As for the lap times, no, I do not think they are relative to one another.

Which track? Hethel pre-Bahar or Hethel post-Bahar?

I'd assume the different layout and surface would make comparing the two impossible. I'm basing this assumption on no data at all though.

I was actually referring to Hethel track times in general and the comedy value of incremental reductions as models get tweaked.

The figures posted by The Pits are remarkable, however you look at it.

Don't get me wrong, I am hopeful that the car is a success (and Lotus as a whole), I am just not sure that the performance is a big enough step up for that many ££s. I would be really interested to see what H111 do with this and the potential performance.

[RobM77]

Shnozz said:

RobM77 said:

Shnozz said:

When it comes to Lotus 0-100 and Hethel lap times, I'd say the numbers lie considerably.

But if they're all Hethel times, would they not be accurate relative to each other? They do their times one up, whereas magazines have a passenger; that makes a fair difference.

All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.

Quelle surprise. Your 4 pot Yota engined car feels in line in performance to the V6, but in turn the V6 feels considerably fast than the 4 pot Yota engined Exige.

Yes, 120 kg is a fair old chunk between the 211 and the Zige and the equivalent of lugging around an 18 stone salad dodger, but even still. I should have a drive of the V6 to compare but I have no intention of buying one and am not one to waste dealer's resources for interest alone. No doubt I will have an opportunity at some point once one of my Lotus chums parts with the cash. For now I'll have to make do with the measly 240ish bhp.

As for the lap times, no, I do not think they are relative to one another. They seem nothing more than marketing guff that has become so predictable it has become the source of a wry smirks every time a new model/ltd edition rolls out of Hethel.

Sorry, you've mis-understood. I said that my 2-Eleven feels similar in performance to the V6 Exige I tried, whereas the Exige 260 seems slower than both. To my senses anyway. I was responding to people who've said there's not much in it between the new and old Exige.

[Shnozz]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, you've mis-understood. I said that my 2-Eleven feels similar in performance to the V6 Exige I tried, whereas the Exige 260 seems slower than both. To my senses anyway. I was responding to people who've said there's not much in it between the new and old Exige.

My point was that I'm surprised; your car has the same chassis/engine/SC as an Exige 260, no?

So, whilst it's 120kg lighter, it seemed odd that you feel the V6 Exige and 211 are comparable but that the V6 Exige (and hence the 211 by definition) is 'considerably' faster than the 4 pot Exige. I expect the 211 to benefit from the power to weight advantage but not to that extent. What are we talking? 290bhp/t -v- 320ish 211 and similar bhp/tonne for the V6 Exige (320ish?)?

I appreciate 'considerable' is subjective, but I am genuinely surprised at the inference. Anyways, I don't like giving opinion second hand and a kind gent has offered me a drive. This isn't a good time for me to be spending money so it had best be a sack of ste.

[RobM77]

Shnozz said:

RobM77 said:

Sorry, you've mis-understood. I said that my 2-Eleven feels similar in performance to the V6 Exige I tried, whereas the Exige 260 seems slower than both. To my senses anyway. I was responding to people who've said there's not much in it between the new and old Exige.

My point was that I'm surprised; your car has the same chassis/engine/SC as an Exige 260, no?

So, whilst it's 120kg lighter, it seemed odd that you feel the V6 Exige and 211 are comparable but that the V6 Exige (and hence the 211 by definition) is 'considerably' faster than the 4 pot Exige. I expect the 211 to benefit from the power to weight advantage but not to that extent. What are we talking? 290bhp/t -v- 320ish 211 and similar bhp/tonne for the V6 Exige (320ish?)?

I appreciate 'considerable' is subjective, but I am genuinely surprised at the inference. Anyways, I don't like giving opinion second hand and a kind gent has offered me a drive. This isn't a good time for me to be spending money so it had best be a sack of ste.

That's how it felt to me - subjective opinion will of course vary. It's not quite the same chassis as the Exige in the 2-Eleven, no, it's an S1 tub, so that and the lack of windscreen, roof and doors etc make it quite a bit lighter than the 4cyl Exige with which it shares an engine. The p/ws are different from what you've quoted - the 2-11 is 350-400 depending on what you read, and the Exige Cup 260 is 280-290, again depending on what you read. Again though, I'm simply stating what I have felt with the seat of my pants when driving them, and I'm sure everyone's different in that respect. Straight line performance is not of huge interest to me though, as I don't race anymore - I just do track days and the occasional blat on the road. I'm far more interested in handling and feedback etc and I think that separates the three cars more than the performance.

[lotus99t]

JayHeal said:

Yes a Lotus does handle very well.
But i guess you've never driven a Noble as their handling is amazing.
But then I do have a soft spot for Noble.

I drove a a Noble a long time ago and I loved it,lots of power,noise and yes it handled mega. But to me handling and feel are to different things. Plus you can't beat something that weights only 860kg (my 111r). If I had the cash I'd have an M12 too. ;-)

[The Pits]

Agreed. Having owned both a Caterham and an Elise until recently I can tell you that the Caterham was faster but the Elise had even better steering feel and responded more cleanly to steering inputs. More of the time the slower Elise was better to drive. It also made a Boxster feel numb, dim witted and clumsy in direct comparison.