RE: Lotus Exige Cup: Review
Discussion
RobM77 said:
That's how it felt to me - subjective opinion will of course vary. It's not quite the same chassis as the Exige in the 2-Eleven, no, it's an S1 tub, so that and the lack of windscreen, roof and doors etc make it quite a bit lighter than the 4cyl Exige with which it shares an engine. The p/ws are different from what you've quoted - the 2-11 is 350-400 depending on what you read, and the Exige Cup 260 is 280-290, again depending on what you read. Again though, I'm simply stating what I have felt with the seat of my pants when driving them, and I'm sure everyone's different in that respect. Straight line performance is not of huge interest to me though, as I don't race anymore - I just do track days and the occasional blat on the road. I'm far more interested in handling and feedback etc and I think that separates the three cars more than the performance.
Fair enough, I only had the benefit of google for the 211 bhp/tonne figures. I only searched the first 2 pages of results, 90% of which said 325bhp/tonne and a couple saying 338. Nothing even close to the lowest end of your figures. If the 211 is anything like the 340R I drove, I am certain some of the speed sensation is the absence of bodywork, more in terms of out in the elements than in terms of weight saving. Anything without a screen always feels a lot quicker.
But, as you again reminded me, you used to be a race car driver man. So what would I know.
Giving the V6 a go at the weekend. No doubt it will now snow.
Shnozz said:
RobM77 said:
That's how it felt to me - subjective opinion will of course vary. It's not quite the same chassis as the Exige in the 2-Eleven, no, it's an S1 tub, so that and the lack of windscreen, roof and doors etc make it quite a bit lighter than the 4cyl Exige with which it shares an engine. The p/ws are different from what you've quoted - the 2-11 is 350-400 depending on what you read, and the Exige Cup 260 is 280-290, again depending on what you read. Again though, I'm simply stating what I have felt with the seat of my pants when driving them, and I'm sure everyone's different in that respect. Straight line performance is not of huge interest to me though, as I don't race anymore - I just do track days and the occasional blat on the road. I'm far more interested in handling and feedback etc and I think that separates the three cars more than the performance.
Fair enough, I only had the benefit of google for the 211 bhp/tonne figures. I only searched the first 2 pages of results, 90% of which said 325bhp/tonne and a couple saying 338. Nothing even close to the lowest end of your figures. If the 211 is anything like the 340R I drove, I am certain some of the speed sensation is the absence of bodywork, more in terms of out in the elements than in terms of weight saving. Anything without a screen always feels a lot quicker.
But, as you again reminded me, you used to be a race car driver man. So what would I know.
Giving the V6 a go at the weekend. No doubt it will now snow.
It's ok, the 2-Eleven is a bit confusing as there were two versions: supercharged and normally aspirated. I've never seen a n/a car and I'm not sure if they sold any, but it'll come up on web searches. The next confusion concerns the power: the s/c car was launched with 252bhp, but virtually all cars had their ECUs re-flashed and upgraded to 260bhp by Lotus dealers soon after launch.
As for the weight, that also seems to vary on the web between 670kg and 740kg. The car's manual actually states 745kg for the SVA (road) version with a full tank of fuel ready to drive, which to equate with the usual 'dry weight' figure we get for the other cars would be 693kg without fuel (32kg), oil (8kg) or water (12kg) - I'm not sure how much the battery weighs.
The above figures give power to weight ratios of 351 to 388 bhp/tonne, depending on whether you're looking at the traditional dry weight figures you'll see for all cars, or whether it's a 'ready to drive' figure.
As I said earlier, I'd actually had my heart set on changing my Elise for an Exige. My girlfriend and I had looked through the colours and chosen one and everything. I then went to my local Lotus dealer and test drove a standard S and two 260 models that I was looking to buy. They were very good, but I didn't feel they offered much above my Elise. I then jumped in the 2-Eleven and thought it was absolutely amazing. I can't quite describe it, but it feels totally different to drive to an Exige or Elise - Chris Harris said the same in his review for Autocar at the time - not the performance, but the feeling of the car; weird I know. I'm used to open cars having had two Caterhams and of course raced single seaters, so it wasn't that really, it's just something I can't put my finger on - perhaps it's the lightness? It'd be interesting to drive an S1 Elise back to back with it, it's been a while since I've tried one. So my comparisons between Exige and 2-11 were pretty much back to back - the difference in performance is very noticeable. As I said though, it's the difference in agility that you feel the most. The reason for me buying it was that I'd just quit racing and wanted something for track days that would be fun but still give me some of the sensations of driving a racing car. It's a big heavy beast compared with a single seater, but the longer I go without driving a single seater the better the 2-Eleven seems.
As for the V6 Exige, it's a sensational car. Whilst the 2-Eleven just feels like a Radical or something like that, the Exige feels like a proper road car, you can hear the stereo, it's got a roof, refinement etc. You could genuinely use it everyday, and of course if it rains you don't have a problem. What shocked me was the performance on offer from a car that's so road friendly. The other thing that really got me was the suppleness of the suspension in a straight line over a bumpy road compared with the extremely low roll in the corners. It's a very special car. You'll love it I'm sure
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 29th January 11:42
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 29th January 11:43
RobM77 said:
But if they're all Hethel times, would they not be accurate relative to each other? They do their times one up, whereas magazines have a passenger; that makes a fair difference.
All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.
yep until you get to 80/90mph in a straight line and then its considerably quicker than that too All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.
its just hp after those speeds ... all of them have the areo of a brick anyway. my old hondad s1 exige wouldnt see which way the v6 went after 80mph, that had about 250bhp and was a proper leightweight. the v6 is a totally different ballgame. its a genuinely quick car across all speeds not just a short circuit.
a test drive wont give you any idea at all of what the v6 is capable of. hammering up and down a A road will make you notice a difference but its not only its it significantly quicker to 100mph than a 4cyl car, to really know the difference in performance you need to have it sitting at 100mph and take it to 150mph. hard to do in the uk
Edited by bobo on Wednesday 29th January 15:16
bobo said:
RobM77 said:
But if they're all Hethel times, would they not be accurate relative to each other? They do their times one up, whereas magazines have a passenger; that makes a fair difference.
All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.
yep until you get to 80/90mph in a straight line and then its considerably quicker than that too All I can say personally is that to me the V6 feels considerably faster in a straight line than the 4 cyl, more in line with the performance of my 2-Eleven.
its just hp after those speeds ... all of them have the areo of a brick anyway.
As you infer, whilst acceleration is F = ma (Newton's 2nd law), top speed is just power vs drag (no weight involved), so the more powerful V6 will indeed just keep pulling whilst the 260bhp cars start running out of puff.I don't want to incriminate myself by saying this
but in my drives of all three cars (on a private road - honest!) it's clear that the V6 feels quicker than the 260 due to this drag vs power effect coming in as you get faster, despite having a p/w ratio only marginally better. The 2-Eleven has a much better power to weight ratio than either of them, but obviously it only has 260bhp and probably worse aero than either of them, so that effect balances out to describe what I have experienced. I've experienced a similar effect comparing a Caterham R400 with a Noble M400. Both had around 400bhp/tonne and both feel extremely quick for road cars, but the Noble just feels on another level altogether, because once you're much up above 60mph it just keeps pulling like a train as the 400+bhp work against drag, whereas the Caterham only has 200bhp to work against considerably worse drag.As you also say, a drive in these cars is the only way to truly appreciate these different effects (as I keep trying to say!). There's no question though from my point of view, subjectively the V6 feels a definite step up in performance from the fastest of the old 4cyl Exiges. The chassis is also a development, and the 'learning' TC system is very trick indeed. In short, it's a phenomenal car.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 29th January 15:30
To add my 2 pence worth.
Having just had a test drive in new Exige S and in comparing it to my 2-Eleven -
The Exige has torque !
The gearshift now is very precise and rewarding (ala S2000)
By pass valve on the exhaust sounds good
Build quality looks the same
Suspension is very compliant on the road
Good level of grip
Brakes have power but lacked feel (maybe I just need more time with the car !)
The 2-11 is an in your face driving experience and I think the real world difference is the now the torque and gearshifts - with tuning packages emerging for the Exige which should take it to 400 the performance gap will widen
Having just had a test drive in new Exige S and in comparing it to my 2-Eleven -
The Exige has torque !
The gearshift now is very precise and rewarding (ala S2000)
By pass valve on the exhaust sounds good
Build quality looks the same
Suspension is very compliant on the road
Good level of grip
Brakes have power but lacked feel (maybe I just need more time with the car !)
The 2-11 is an in your face driving experience and I think the real world difference is the now the torque and gearshifts - with tuning packages emerging for the Exige which should take it to 400 the performance gap will widen
Ej74 said:
I have Rob.
Trying to see if I can afford a Cup version and how different the driving experience is
2-11 will be sale towards the end of the summer and trying to upgrade to Exige S or Cup (wife has stated that "why don't you get a Lotus with a roof ")
That sounds like a good idea to me. You may not lose money actually; 2-Eleven values seem pretty buoyant at the moment. The other benefit of course in your situation is that you can park it outside your house and then just grab the keys and drive it anytime that you want to. There's no doubt that the 2-Eleven is more nimble and it's more fun at speed and on track, but the Exige V6 is just such an incredibly good all round car - it's probably the best 'proper' road car I've ever driven. As I said above, the combination of a supple ride on bumpy roads with resistance to roll in corners is utterly spooky. Lotus just seem to get better and better at setting their cars up - Matt Becker is clearly an absolute genius. I haven't tried this new Cup version, but it seems pretty raw and a step up in terms of focus - probably what most people think an Exige will be like before they drive one Trying to see if I can afford a Cup version and how different the driving experience is
2-11 will be sale towards the end of the summer and trying to upgrade to Exige S or Cup (wife has stated that "why don't you get a Lotus with a roof ")
(like the S1 Exige maybe?). Obviously the Cup is the one to get for track days and occasional road blasts - 2-11 style use I guess, just with weather protection and more punch, but the standard car could conceivably be used everyday, so it's a balancing act, and a rather nice choice to make!I like the idea of the toys on the cup (adjustable suspension, sump. carbon seats etc)
In reality it would be a road car most of time and 4 or 5 trackdays at most a year so in reality a Exige S works.
Now I have to find a Cup car I can test drive and try to convince myself or not !
Do you have the contact details for the company that made your sofas for you ?
cheers
In reality it would be a road car most of time and 4 or 5 trackdays at most a year so in reality a Exige S works.
Now I have to find a Cup car I can test drive and try to convince myself or not !
Do you have the contact details for the company that made your sofas for you ?
cheers
Ej74 said:
I like the idea of the toys on the cup (adjustable suspension, sump. carbon seats etc)
In reality it would be a road car most of time and 4 or 5 trackdays at most a year so in reality a Exige S works.
Now I have to find a Cup car I can test drive and try to convince myself or not !
Do you have the contact details for the company that made your sofas for you ?
cheers
My sofas? Collins and Hayes. They customised an existing product of theirs to fit our small living room perfectly. We went for feather on the back and micro-fibre foam at the base (an important choice, so try different combos - that was our favourite). The price direct from C&H was over £3k if I remember rightly, but I played two resellers off against each other and ended up getting it for £2k. My wife spilt some beetroot on it last year, but thankfully the price included professional cleaning and the guy that came round said that he could tell immediately it was a C&H sofa and they're the highest quality ones you can get - his words not mine. We're very pleased with it.In reality it would be a road car most of time and 4 or 5 trackdays at most a year so in reality a Exige S works.
Now I have to find a Cup car I can test drive and try to convince myself or not !
Do you have the contact details for the company that made your sofas for you ?
cheers
Do report back on the Cup - it looks like an awesome car! I'll check out The Pits' thread tonight
The Cup will continue to be very rare, in part because the regular V6S is such a nicely judged proposition - just comfortable enough for long journeys, just hardcore enough to work well on the track. It's such a good compromise it's hard not to see the Cup as a modest gain in track ability at the expense of some road manners. In truth that's an entirely reasonable position to take, hence the popularity of the V6S.
However some V6S owners are using their cars quite heavily on the track and are starting to modify their cars to something nearer Cup spec. In that instance I think they probably would have been better off with a Cup to begin with. An equivalent spec V6S will actually cost more than the Cup and you still won't have the near 70kg weight saving. I haven't even been near the adjustable dampers yet, so good is the factory set-up for track use. If anything I might soften it off from the mid-way factory default settings for the road. But really struggle to fault it on the track. It made a Nissan GTR seem like a very blunt instrument in direct comparison and that was at Silverstone GP too.
As it stands either version of the V6 Exige is nimble enough to enjoy around Cadwell Park and powerful enough to enjoy at Silverstone. Unless you're on a money no object budget I don't think there's a better choice for lapping and driving to and from the stunning circuits we have in the UK. Crucially it's fun on track whatever our not-so-stunning weather is up to.
However some V6S owners are using their cars quite heavily on the track and are starting to modify their cars to something nearer Cup spec. In that instance I think they probably would have been better off with a Cup to begin with. An equivalent spec V6S will actually cost more than the Cup and you still won't have the near 70kg weight saving. I haven't even been near the adjustable dampers yet, so good is the factory set-up for track use. If anything I might soften it off from the mid-way factory default settings for the road. But really struggle to fault it on the track. It made a Nissan GTR seem like a very blunt instrument in direct comparison and that was at Silverstone GP too.
As it stands either version of the V6 Exige is nimble enough to enjoy around Cadwell Park and powerful enough to enjoy at Silverstone. Unless you're on a money no object budget I don't think there's a better choice for lapping and driving to and from the stunning circuits we have in the UK. Crucially it's fun on track whatever our not-so-stunning weather is up to.
As you can see I have been debating the Cup vs. V6S debate for many months
The difference between the cars seems to be poise, on track capabilities, weight reduction and addition of being more track focused
Could I live with a Cup in and around London - as the 2-11 doesn't like speed humps ?
Would I be able to get track insurance for a Cup or Exige S ?
Would a Exige S on a trackday still give the same degree of enjoyment as a 2-11 or my older MR2 ? or would I want to start modifying ?
A used Cup is probably going to be hard to come by as well..
The difference between the cars seems to be poise, on track capabilities, weight reduction and addition of being more track focused
Could I live with a Cup in and around London - as the 2-11 doesn't like speed humps ?
Would I be able to get track insurance for a Cup or Exige S ?
Would a Exige S on a trackday still give the same degree of enjoyment as a 2-11 or my older MR2 ? or would I want to start modifying ?
A used Cup is probably going to be hard to come by as well..
Ej74 said:
As you can see I have been debating the Cup vs. V6S debate for many months
The difference between the cars seems to be poise, on track capabilities, weight reduction and addition of being more track focused
Could I live with a Cup in and around London - as the 2-11 doesn't like speed humps ?
Would I be able to get track insurance for a Cup or Exige S ?
Would a Exige S on a trackday still give the same degree of enjoyment as a 2-11 or my older MR2 ? or would I want to start modifying ?
A used Cup is probably going to be hard to come by as well..
Most go for the V6S, did you know that the V6S has a 3 year warranty (does track use invalidate it though?) whereas the Cup cars have just 12 months. The difference between the cars seems to be poise, on track capabilities, weight reduction and addition of being more track focused
Could I live with a Cup in and around London - as the 2-11 doesn't like speed humps ?
Would I be able to get track insurance for a Cup or Exige S ?
Would a Exige S on a trackday still give the same degree of enjoyment as a 2-11 or my older MR2 ? or would I want to start modifying ?
A used Cup is probably going to be hard to come by as well..
No idea about speed humps but the V6 Cup wouldn't be any worse than the V6S, the ride height is the same as far as I know.
If you can get track insurance for a 211, should be no problem for a V6.
Would a V6S be as enjoyable on a track as a 211? Probably not on a dry day but definitely better in the wet and for driving to and from the track. The torque and V6 soundtrack is something the 211 can't match though. As a pure track car though, the 211 takes some beating.
You will want to start modifying. That's never going to change! At least with a V6 Cup you won't have to but you'll still want to. The moment you're tucked in behind a 911 GT3 that's been holding you up in the corners, you'll want 400bhp.
No chance of a used Cup, there are still probably less than 10 in the UK. But last time I looked there was a Solar Yellow one for sale in Newcastle and Bell and Colvill have a Burnt Orange one. You're more likely to get a deal on the yellow one as it's been for sale for longer.
For me it was easy. Just add up the cost of the stuff that's standard on the Cup and the V6S works out more expensive and it's still heavier. Plus you won't find anyone willing to remove your airbags for you so you'll be stuck with the airbag wheel.
As a 2-Eleven owner that's driven an Exige S and read all the reviews etc, I can definitely agree with the above. The 2-Eleven is a track specialised car - it's under 700kg, ridiculously low ground clearance with a substantial front splitter, positive downforce etc. The Exige V6 at 1000kg+ is never going to have the same agility, handling or perhaps the low/mid speed acceleration on track, but it does a lot of other things as well, such as comfortable road driving (I used my Elise as a daily driver and I'd happily use an Exige V6 for the same), touring, B road blats etc; plus above about 60-70mph I'm convinced it's quicker and it's certainly quicker lower in the rev range. Plus, if it rains and you're in an Exige you don't get soaked. I find vision a big problem in the 2-Eleven in the rain actually, because I sit too low to get any airflow over my visor. The rain's a big issue actually; for track days I either book at the last minute when the weather forecast is up, or book in advance and accept there's a 30% chance it might rain and ruin my day. I still love the 2-Eleven, but it's a very specialised car compared to the Exige S. It's great to get your wife involved too, and if she doesn't like the 2-Eleven much then I'm sure she'll be fine with the Exige. I'd take her along for the test drive - it'll be especially useful if you're forking out £50k+ for one; I had enough fuss from mine when I bought the 2-Eleven!!ETA: My aim for the future is to save up and buy an Evora S to go alongside the 2-Eleven
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 5th February 11:50
Rob as always singing from the same hymn sheet
The unpredictability of UK weather is annoying especially with an open top car and booking trackdays - I should just learn to get wet !
Wife is not an issue in my opinion she understands the need for a roof on a car and did happen to point out an Elise the other day which I promptly responded by saying it doesn't have enough power but an Exige does !
Exige S would be an occasional track car that performs well
Cup is a track day that is road legal
All comes down to money in the end !
Cheers for the inputs guys
The unpredictability of UK weather is annoying especially with an open top car and booking trackdays - I should just learn to get wet !
Wife is not an issue in my opinion she understands the need for a roof on a car and did happen to point out an Elise the other day which I promptly responded by saying it doesn't have enough power but an Exige does !
Exige S would be an occasional track car that performs well
Cup is a track day that is road legal
All comes down to money in the end !
Cheers for the inputs guys
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