Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[flemke]

hyphen said:

That was bizarre wasn't it? Surely you would spin off that part into another video. He didn't seem a F1 fan as the passion and enthusiasm didn't come across as genuine, more that he knows it will get hits on Youtube.

Strange that he didn't seem to get any access beyond sitting in that seat, the owner didn't let him start it up and he didn't even have the ability to open the luggage compartment. Was it the owner driving or some employee with instructions to keep keys on him I wonder.

Anyone know why there aren't more cars with the F1 seating arrangement- is it copyrighted by McLaren?

Yes, it was patented, although I believe the patent expired a year or two ago.

Beyond that, it is not really practical because you have to climb over a passenger seat in order to get into the driver's seat. Almost all "supercars" are fairly conventional and need to sell in the thousands in order to justify themselves financially to their manufacturers. The three-seat arrangement does not work in a marketplace that large.
In the realm of "hypercars" it could be argued that the marketplace is narrow enough to allow for something as specialised as the three-seat arrangement, but I think the problem there is that that same narrow marketplace is generally well-informed and no manufacturer wants to be seen to be copying an idea with which one of its main rivals has been uniquely associated for 25 years.

[chris333]

flemke said:

Yes, it was patented, although I believe the patent expired a year or two ago.

Beyond that, it is not really practical because you have to climb over a passenger seat in order to get into the driver's seat. Almost all "supercars" are fairly conventional and need to sell in the thousands in order to justify themselves financially to their manufacturers. The three-seat arrangement does not work in a marketplace that large.
In the realm of "hypercars" it could be argued that the marketplace is narrow enough to allow for something as specialised as the three-seat arrangement, but I think the problem there is that that same narrow marketplace is generally well-informed and no manufacturer wants to be seen to be copying an idea with which one of its main rivals has been uniquely associated for 25 years.

How much of the "aura" around the F1 do you think is due to the the 3 seat layout? Even if it was a conventional two-seat car, the details of its design, development and construction would make it a fabulous car. But the central driving position is always mentioned as being a really special thing.

[Rich_W]

Joe911 said:

. And his attempt at hiding the location of the garage wasn't very good - might pop down there later (not).

I have to admit, knowing that part of Town VERY well it wasn't tough. I could even work out where he must live from the panoramic shots. I did kinda assume the car doesn't live there the whole time though, so it wasn't that important. So even if the InstaVloggers managed to get into that car park, they wouldn't find the car.

I found the comment about the passenger seat making you curl your shoulders interesting. Is that something you can comment on, having been in Mr F's many times. Same with the AC not being up to the job. I thought there was a "high capacity" option these days.

As for Mr JWW I actually don't dislike him as much as say Shmee.

The real problem is finding anything to say about the F1 that hasn't been said 100s of times before.

He's got anther video up with the F1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4NT2FBcSU

There's obviously a series of these coming.

Flemke, have you ever been seriously tempted to do an indepth video about the car? Something like "Living with an F1 for 10 years" (or whatever) I know you eschew the limelight for obvious reasons, but would you trust Evo to do a 20min vid all about it? And relay your comments? (or you could do the witness protection voiceover )

[FUBMW]

Is the F1 Mr JWW is in the ex-Rowan Atkinson car? I assume they've borrowed it from the new owner?

[Joe911]

FUBMW said:

Is the F1 Mr JWW is in the ex-Rowan Atkinson car? I assume they've borrowed it from the new owner?

I assumed JWW is hanging out with the new owner - but I have no specific knowledge.
Looks like Erik is on the same tour - and presumably also hanging out with an F1 owner. Erik's info will be more reliable and interesting.

[epom]

AndyB is on the tour aswell. Some fab pics from him.

[flemke]

chris333 said:

flemke said:

Yes, it was patented, although I believe the patent expired a year or two ago.

Beyond that, it is not really practical because you have to climb over a passenger seat in order to get into the driver's seat. Almost all "supercars" are fairly conventional and need to sell in the thousands in order to justify themselves financially to their manufacturers. The three-seat arrangement does not work in a marketplace that large.
In the realm of "hypercars" it could be argued that the marketplace is narrow enough to allow for something as specialised as the three-seat arrangement, but I think the problem there is that that same narrow marketplace is generally well-informed and no manufacturer wants to be seen to be copying an idea with which one of its main rivals has been uniquely associated for 25 years.

How much of the "aura" around the F1 do you think is due to the the 3 seat layout? Even if it was a conventional two-seat car, the details of its design, development and construction would make it a fabulous car. But the central driving position is always mentioned as being a really special thing.

I think the things that make the F1 truly special are, in order of importance:

- central driving position,
- winning Le Mans outright,
- engine, and
- the project was led by the pre-eminent race car designer of his era, who applied holistic design and an attention to detail otherwise found only in Formula One cars.

[flemke]

Rich_W said:

Flemke, have you ever been seriously tempted to do an indepth video about the car? Something like "Living with an F1 for 10 years" (or whatever) I know you eschew the limelight for obvious reasons, but would you trust Evo to do a 20min vid all about it? And relay your comments? (or you could do the witness protection voiceover )

No. The book Driving Ambition, published in about 2000, covered much of the territory related to the design, construction, and racing history of the cars.
What it's like to live with the car has been covered pretty well, I daresay, in this thread and its predecessors.
Thus I think that most of what at least I would have to say is already available.

If a bunch of people were to say that they would like such a thing as you suggest, I might consider it. I don't think I would do it with evo, however. I helped them out about 10 years ago, which was fine, but nowadays I know almost none of the people there.

[flemke]

FUBMW said:

Is the F1 Mr JWW is in the ex-Rowan Atkinson car? I assume they've borrowed it from the new owner?

Yes it is: chassis #061, IIRC.
I doubt that the new owner "loaned" it. Either he or someone he trusts was driving it. I do not recall the talker driving the car, and I don't think that was because he did not want to drive it.

[Storer]

flemke said:

I think the things that make the F1 truly special are, in order of importance:

- central driving position,
- winning Le Mans outright,
- engine, and
- the project was led by the pre-eminent race car designer of his era, who applied holistic design and an attention to detail otherwise found only in Formula One cars.

Ironically I would have listed them exactly the other way round, as a non owner.

[Rich_W]

Joe911 said:

Looks like Erik is on the same tour - and presumably also hanging out with an F1 owner. Erik's info will be more reliable and interesting.

Alex Penfold is also there.

Peletone25 Has done 2 Instagram live videos.

Just needs to work on his presentation. He gets sidetracked a little too easily. The first vid he was strolling around talking about the cars, then got to the Longtails and starting answering questions so he didn't go near them. Which was a shame, but I imagine they'll be more vids and I accept he's a enthusiast, not a presenter. He could try and get stuff up loaded to YT so he gets to make a bit of money along the way.

From a comment on there, it sounds like he's spectating (with privileged access since he's namechecked Panis amongst other) he said he hasn't planned to go in any cars, and doesn't like to ask. When I first heard/interacted with him from AutomotiveForums years ago, I thought he was a bit tragic, but over time I have to admit I like his passion and knowledge of the car. He could really do with a website to document everything he's ever known. Or perhaps a book deal!

So if in some bizarre parallel universe I find myself the owner of an F1, I'll let him have a drive in it (somewhere suitably large like Bruntingthorpe perhaps ) I think he deserves that.

[wst]

The one thing that brings the engine below that win, for me, would be that the engine could be replicated. It's a legendary 100hp/l gorgeous thing, but it could theoretically be done again, or by someone else.

That win though, that's priceless.

[Boozy]

I don't understand the dislike for JWW, he owns a McLaren, the video of the F1 was ok and he did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtIMhabfos

[zeDuffMan]

Boozy said:

I don't understand the dislike for JWW, he owns a McLaren, the video of the F1 was ok and he did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtIMhabfos

Given that he is a professional motoring vlogger with such a big following, he must have been able to do something better with an F1.

In fact, just replacing the bits of the videos where he waves his hand right at the camera lens with still images of the car would have made them 10x better.

No one really gives a stuff about where you go to buy coffee on a roadtrip. People want to see the car, right? Although I guess that's the difference between a lifestyle 'vlogger' and a journalist who's trying to put you in the driver's seat...

In which case he might as well cut the expenses and drive about in a G-Wiz.

With regards to the P1 GTR video - if it was with a driver with zero personality and it was all on JWW to make something half interesting, he would have failed miserably.

Just IMO of course...

[flemke]

TurboTerrific9 said:

flemke said:

chris333 said:

flemke said:

Yes, it was patented, although I believe the patent expired a year or two ago.

Beyond that, it is not really practical because you have to climb over a passenger seat in order to get into the driver's seat. Almost all "supercars" are fairly conventional and need to sell in the thousands in order to justify themselves financially to their manufacturers. The three-seat arrangement does not work in a marketplace that large.
In the realm of "hypercars" it could be argued that the marketplace is narrow enough to allow for something as specialised as the three-seat arrangement, but I think the problem there is that that same narrow marketplace is generally well-informed and no manufacturer wants to be seen to be copying an idea with which one of its main rivals has been uniquely associated for 25 years.

How much of the "aura" around the F1 do you think is due to the the 3 seat layout? Even if it was a conventional two-seat car, the details of its design, development and construction would make it a fabulous car. But the central driving position is always mentioned as being a really special thing.

I think the things that make the F1 truly special are, in order of importance:

- central driving position,
- winning Le Mans outright,
- engine, and
- the project was led by the pre-eminent race car designer of his era, who applied holistic design and an attention to detail otherwise found only in Formula One cars.

Personally I'd place the engine above the win at Le Mans

wst said:

The one thing that brings the engine below that win, for me, would be that the engine could be replicated. It's a legendary 100hp/l gorgeous thing, but it could theoretically be done again, or by someone else.

That win though, that's priceless.

I did think about whether to put the engine ahead of the Le Mans win. The engine is wonderful but at least to some extent it is, unlike the other factors, a hostage to technological progress. In 1992 it was extraordinary. In the intervening 25 years, however, there have been a few other wonderful NA engines produced. Maybe, or maybe not, the F1's engine is still in a class of its own, but Ferrari have produced a couple of V12s, and Porsche a V10, that are pretty special too.

[flemke]

Storer said:

flemke said:

I think the things that make the F1 truly special are, in order of importance:

- central driving position,
- winning Le Mans outright,
- engine, and
- the project was led by the pre-eminent race car designer of his era, who applied holistic design and an attention to detail otherwise found only in Formula One cars.

Ironically I would have listed them exactly the other way round, as a non owner.

One might disagree as to the relative importance of certain historical events, but in no way should the engine be ranked above the central driving position!

[flemke]

Boozy said:

I don't understand the dislike for JWW, he owns a McLaren, the video of the F1 was ok and he did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtIMhabfos

Regardless of the personality in the video, my question would be: Does this video show us or tell us anything at all that we had not seen or known before?
New information? No, in fact several pieces of wrong information.
New insights about the car? None that I heard.
Handsome images and videography? No, quite ordinary, standard stuff through the windscreen of a car traveling down uninteresting public roads at normal speeds.
The lengthy interlude in the Belgian Ferrari dealership was simply bizarre, a bit like interrupting the Indy 500 pre-race show for a 5-minute advert for haemorrhoid cream.

What the viewer is left with is a video that is nothing more than, "Hey, people, look at me whilst I am given a ride in a McLaren F1!" If that had been posted as a one-off experience of an enthusiastic amateur or better yet a child, it would have been great. As a professional vlog, however, it is vapid and charmless - a complete waste of the viewer's time.

[Uncle Ron]

hyphen said:

Anyone know why there aren't more cars with the F1 seating arrangement- is it copyrighted by McLaren?

Another reason for this is crash testing/safety. BP23 will be Show & Display only in the US due in part to the fact that the extended space between the passenger seats and dashboard will allow too much acceleration before meeting the airbag. Suspect anyone trying to build three seat layouts in higher volumes will struggle with this. Combined with the ingress/egress difficulties it's just too niche in my opinion to make it work at scale.

[clonmult]

Storer said:

flemke said:

I think the things that make the F1 truly special are, in order of importance:

- central driving position,
- winning Le Mans outright,
- engine, and
- the project was led by the pre-eminent race car designer of his era, who applied holistic design and an attention to detail otherwise found only in Formula One cars.

Ironically I would have listed them exactly the other way round, as a non owner.

I would have too; it was a very single minded vision from a legendary designer, and the driving position, engine and Le Mans wouldn't have had the impact without Gordon Murray at the helm.

[ukaskew]

Rich_W said:

From a comment on there, it sounds like he's spectating (with privileged access since he's namechecked Panis amongst other) he said he hasn't planned to go in any cars, and doesn't like to ask. When I first heard/interacted with him from AutomotiveForums years ago, I thought he was a bit tragic, but over time I have to admit I like his passion and knowledge of the car. He could really do with a website to document everything he's ever known. Or perhaps a book deal!

So if in some bizarre parallel universe I find myself the owner of an F1, I'll let him have a drive in it (somewhere suitably large like Bruntingthorpe perhaps ) I think he deserves that.

Wondering, as I do, about the mundane things such as logistics, I did wonder how/why some of guys that are there are there or how that works. Do they tag along in conventional cars or are there support vehicles from McLaren/Lanzante in attendance anyway? I get why they'd maybe want a good photographer or two and a videographer in attendance.

I agree fully that it would be wonderful for Erik/Peleton25 to do something with all that knowledge. Just his replies on Instagram alone are full of a staggering amount of interesting information. Image rights would be a pita I'm sure but his archive seems pretty staggering. I think I saw him mention that he was 'passenger-ing' in the Harrods GTR today/yesterday, I hope he gets a chance (no matter how small) to pedal one a little bit.

I too was a little unsure at first, but as a hobby it's a pretty special one and has clearly opened some interesting doors. Unlike say, gaming or whatever many people while away many, many hours of their lives on, this at least has a wider purpose.