Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Mikeeb said:
flemke said:
In general, yes, although there are several variables.
- lighter shows more shadow, and therefore more contours, than darker;
- gloss shows more reflection, and therefore more contours, than matte;
- if the brake rotor itself is light (iron rather than carbon-carbon), darker shows silhouette better than lighter.
Mine are black, dead matte, against carbon-carbon rotors, and therefore almost invisible.
Does this mean you have got the carbon brakes working in the F1 now?- lighter shows more shadow, and therefore more contours, than darker;
- gloss shows more reflection, and therefore more contours, than matte;
- if the brake rotor itself is light (iron rather than carbon-carbon), darker shows silhouette better than lighter.
Mine are black, dead matte, against carbon-carbon rotors, and therefore almost invisible.
Carbon-carbon discs now on the car; tested and confirmed by the factory. We have a program to make them even better, but they are fine as it is.
flemke said:
Yes, they're on the car and work fine. Before we had a problem that manifested itself only under the most extreme conditions that almost certainly would never arise in road use. I wanted to rectify that problem out of a stubborn sense of perfectionism, rather than because I expected it ever to happen in the real world.
Carbon-carbon discs now on the car; tested and confirmed by the factory. We have a program to make them even better, but they are fine as it is.
That's great news. Did you get Woking to do the work, or just confirm they were happy with it? Can I ask what the problem under extreme conditions was?Carbon-carbon discs now on the car; tested and confirmed by the factory. We have a program to make them even better, but they are fine as it is.
ferrisbueller said:
Dare I ask how the NSX factory refresh is going?
About a month ago I called it off. Life is too short. I'll get the car sorted another way, but the whole process just wasn't worth it. My overall plan, which has been in process for a while, is to reduce the number of cars that I own so that I can use and enjoy more often the ones that I like best.Mikeeb said:
flemke said:
Yes, they're on the car and work fine. Before we had a problem that manifested itself only under the most extreme conditions that almost certainly would never arise in road use. I wanted to rectify that problem out of a stubborn sense of perfectionism, rather than because I expected it ever to happen in the real world.
Carbon-carbon discs now on the car; tested and confirmed by the factory. We have a program to make them even better, but they are fine as it is.
That's great news. Did you get Woking to do the work, or just confirm they were happy with it? Can I ask what the problem under extreme conditions was?Carbon-carbon discs now on the car; tested and confirmed by the factory. We have a program to make them even better, but they are fine as it is.
The problem was that under repeated, high-speed maximum braking events (such as what you would do on a racing track, but never on the road), the temperatures of the front rotors and pads ramped up much more quickly than the temperatures of the rears did. The car stopped fine, but the balance wasn't ideal.
flemke said:
ferrisbueller said:
Dare I ask how the NSX factory refresh is going?
About a month ago I called it off. Life is too short. I'll get the car sorted another way, but the whole process just wasn't worth it. My overall plan, which has been in process for a while, is to reduce the number of cars that I own so that I can use and enjoy more often the ones that I like best.Flemke, after hearing about your (unsurprising) downsizing, what will happen to the trove of bicycles you own?
I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
Szulc said:
Flemke, after hearing about your (unsurprising) downsizing, what will happen to the trove of bicycles you own?
I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
No way would I get rid of any bicycles. I want to acquire a few more. I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
Bikes take up almost no space so unless you own more than say fifty there is no storage problem. They don't need to be taxed, insured, or MOT'd. They need less servicing than cars do and, unlike cars, you can service them yourself. You don't need to ride them for an hour or two before you reach a place where it is worth riding them.
The only problem with bikes is that it is getting harder to find new-old stock, and some of the new-new components are unappealing. Why do SRAM go out of their way to make their stuff ugly? Shimano and even Campy are tending in that direction as well.
The Rocket: I'm working on that situation. Regarding the book, a couple of months ago I went up to see Chris (who is one of my favourite people). I asked him about the book; his information is that Clive is still working on it.
flemke said:
Szulc said:
Flemke, after hearing about your (unsurprising) downsizing, what will happen to the trove of bicycles you own?
I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
No way would I get rid of any bicycles. I want to acquire a few more. I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
Bikes take up almost no space so unless you own more than say fifty there is no storage problem. They don't need to be taxed, insured, or MOT'd. They need less servicing than cars do and, unlike cars, you can service them yourself. You don't need to ride them for an hour or two before you reach a place where it is worth riding them.
The only problem with bikes is that it is getting harder to find new-old stock, and some of the new-new components are unappealing. Why do SRAM go out of their way to make their stuff ugly? Shimano and even Campy are tending in that direction as well.
The Rocket: I'm working on that situation. Regarding the book, a couple of months ago I went up to see Chris (who is one of my favourite people). I asked him about the book; his information is that Clive is still working on it.
Oh - and speak for yourself saying unless you have fifty bikes then storage isn't a problem
E65Ross said:
flemke said:
Szulc said:
Flemke, after hearing about your (unsurprising) downsizing, what will happen to the trove of bicycles you own?
I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
No way would I get rid of any bicycles. I want to acquire a few more. I do hope the Rocket makes the cut, and that it won't be too difficult to bring over to the states.
On the note of the Rocket, has anyone heard of a limited edition/heavy detailed book in the works regarding the Rocket? Last I heard it was still being worked on around this time last year, by "Clive Neville" from the UK, However I haven't heard a peep since.
Bikes take up almost no space so unless you own more than say fifty there is no storage problem. They don't need to be taxed, insured, or MOT'd. They need less servicing than cars do and, unlike cars, you can service them yourself. You don't need to ride them for an hour or two before you reach a place where it is worth riding them.
The only problem with bikes is that it is getting harder to find new-old stock, and some of the new-new components are unappealing. Why do SRAM go out of their way to make their stuff ugly? Shimano and even Campy are tending in that direction as well.
The Rocket: I'm working on that situation. Regarding the book, a couple of months ago I went up to see Chris (who is one of my favourite people). I asked him about the book; his information is that Clive is still working on it.
Oh - and speak for yourself saying unless you have fifty bikes then storage isn't a problem
zb said:
flemke said:
I<snip>
Starting with the dark blue, what colour wheels would be best? I think matte black, but I am open to suggestions.
White.Starting with the dark blue, what colour wheels would be best? I think matte black, but I am open to suggestions.
Edited by flemke on Wednesday 8th May 09:34
Rocket. said:
Some good F1 chat on latest Chris Harris podcast 'Collecting Cars' when he chats to David Clark.
I hope the 'Rocket' book gets finished, I've read a draft and it's worth the wait.
Thanks for the tip on "Collecting Cars". I tried to listen to it but it stopped after a minute or so. Perhaps that was because I did not subscribe, but I'm not going to subscribe. I hope the 'Rocket' book gets finished, I've read a draft and it's worth the wait.
As for David Clark, the podcast window begins thus:
Chris Harris and Edward Lovett chat with David Clark; former Director of the McLaren F1 road and race car programmes, about his experiences at the wheel of one of the most ambitious projects in motoring
That introduction does not precisely accord with my understanding of the facts. I'll mention the word "bargepole" and leave it at that.
CanAm said:
I know it's all down to personal taste, but I also prefer lighter wheels on a darker car.
Sorry Flemke.
Agree. I like a black wheel, and have them on my car which is red, but on something like a purple 911 GT3 RS black looks odd. I’d take silver every day if I was in that position.Sorry Flemke.
Also see Shmee’s 675 LT, purple with silver wheels looks fantastic, don’t think it would work with black. Doesn’t make it look less ‘sporty’ to my eyes
Rocket. said:
Some good F1 chat on latest Chris Harris podcast 'Collecting Cars' when he chats to David Clark.
I hope the 'Rocket' book gets finished, I've read a draft and it's worth the wait.
Okay, I have now listened to the full podcast. Let us say that I would not agree with everything he said about the history of the F1.I hope the 'Rocket' book gets finished, I've read a draft and it's worth the wait.
Perhaps I might indicate my opinion by quoting directly from David Clark:
"I am quite friendly with Max Mosley." QED
Podcast link:
https://player.fm/series/series-2507842/chris-harr...
flemke said:
... I'll mention the word "bargepole" and leave it at that.
You've hinted at various people in the F1 environ that you are less than impressed with. So to keep this positive I'll suggest only naming the people you like.If someone you know came to you and asked for advice on sourcing and purchasing a F1 who would you point them in the direction of? Kidston? (a fellow owner of course) McLaren themselves? AN Other?
Who would you have check the car over on their behalf prior to purchase?
Would you be willing to go with that person as a 2nd pair of eyes to inspect (assuming you knew them reasonably well)
Who would you then send them to if they wanted to repaint and retrim the car (as seems common)
Would you suggest essential modifications? Not necessarily the extensive work you've had done. But something like the HID kit or the uprated AC or "add a bit of leather here, as it rubs on your elbow otherwise" IIRC you had the LM handbrake but it got silly hot to touch in the summer.
And lastly, would you advise on price? Are you au fait enough with current or recent sales, to be able to put a realistic value on the hypothetical roadcar or GTR in front of you?
In my head a road converted GTR is circa £8-10, a decent road car is probably £12ish. That late car with the LM engine and the yellow "delivery miles" cars are probably outliers and slightly more. A LM would be probably nearer £25-30! (of course these owners don't tend to sell. Cant imagine the Sultan ever letting his go)
S1KRR said:
flemke said:
... I'll mention the word "bargepole" and leave it at that.
You've hinted at various people in the F1 environ that you are less than impressed with. So to keep this positive I'll suggest only naming the people you like.If someone you know came to you and asked for advice on sourcing and purchasing a F1 who would you point them in the direction of? Kidston? (a fellow owner of course) McLaren themselves? AN Other?
Who would you have check the car over on their behalf prior to purchase?
Would you be willing to go with that person as a 2nd pair of eyes to inspect (assuming you knew them reasonably well)
Who would you then send them to if they wanted to repaint and retrim the car (as seems common)
Would you suggest essential modifications? Not necessarily the extensive work you've had done. But something like the HID kit or the uprated AC or "add a bit of leather here, as it rubs on your elbow otherwise" IIRC you had the LM handbrake but it got silly hot to touch in the summer.
And lastly, would you advise on price? Are you au fait enough with current or recent sales, to be able to put a realistic value on the hypothetical roadcar or GTR in front of you?
In my head a road converted GTR is circa £8-10, a decent road car is probably £12ish. That late car with the LM engine and the yellow "delivery miles" cars are probably outliers and slightly more. A LM would be probably nearer £25-30! (of course these owners don't tend to sell. Cant imagine the Sultan ever letting his go)
- I have been asked for and have given advice about buying F1s, most recently earlier this year, a couple of times last year, and so on. What I would advise would depend on the circumstances.
A friend sold an F1 through Kidston and was happy with how he was treated, so that would be a possibility, although it appears that Kidston normally advertises what he has for sale, so if he's not advertising one he probably would not be the first call.
Usually what these dealers are looking for is a conversation starter. If they get a live would-be buyer, that gives them an excuse to contact all the owners whom they know. They will get some feedback from those owners and, even if nothing gets done with the original would-be buyer, they might learn that car "X" is for sale for more than that buyer wants to pay. The dealer then will contact other people who might be potential buyers, marketing car "X".
- Most of the time, MSO (McLaren) will for a fee check over a car and give an inspection report. They are the only recognised authority at that level, although the specialist at McLaren Philadelphia is good.
- In some circumstances I would be willing to accompany them to inspect the car and in the past I have done so, test driven the car, etc.
- For repainting, the whole car has to be taken apart, so the factory would be the safest option, although I have seen one car that was repainted by an independent and it was as good a paint job as I have ever seen on any car. For retrimming, it's not as critical. At one stage I was not happy with the trimmer that MSO were using so I used an independent (with MSO's cooperation to disassemble and reassemble the pieces).
- What modifications? A lot of the cars have had the factory upgrades for A/C and headlamps. They are kind-of required. I don't think the standard four-point driver's harnesses are that good, so that would be another obvious thing. Aesthetic changes (including high-downforce kit) are personal. Mechanical changes such as I have done are tricky and a big job - not something that should be done by halves. Problem with that LM-style handbrake was that its edges tended to cut into one's hand; the normal wood version works better.
- Price-wise, these days a nice standard car is more than $20m, maybe $22m on a good day. A true LM would be - IMO - $35m, that sort of thing.
- Re Brunei, they started out with 9 cars. One has been crashed, not repaired and its remains are in a shed in Brunei, one was sold about a dozen years ago, another was sold more recently. Fwiw, because of the climate and problematical conditions in which the Brunei cars have been stored, the market tends to discount a car coming from there. It's not a huge difference, but there is a difference.
flemke said:
You have covered a lot of ground.
...
- Price-wise, these days a nice standard car is more than $20m, maybe $22m on a good day. A true LM would be - IMO - $35m, that sort of thing.
Thanks for the response ...
- Price-wise, these days a nice standard car is more than $20m, maybe $22m on a good day. A true LM would be - IMO - $35m, that sort of thing.
When my numbers come up. I'll be sure to seek your assistance. 
I'm surprised no one has made Brueni a "silly" offer for some of his cars. I would have thought those suitably well heeled value rarity quite highly. And the cachet of getting one of the LMs for example out would be a significant draw.
Which, (and please don't answer this personally Flemke), makes me wonder whether there's an owner out there who just has an F1 and a daily driver* parked in the garage of a relatively modest home. I suspect most owners have a minimum of 6 cars in their fleet.
* preferably something like a 10 year old estate that does looks like it does runs to the dump and Tescos
flemke said:
S1KRR said:
flemke said:
... I'll mention the word "bargepole" and leave it at that.
You've hinted at various people in the F1 environ that you are less than impressed with. So to keep this positive I'll suggest only naming the people you like.If someone you know came to you and asked for advice on sourcing and purchasing a F1 who would you point them in the direction of? Kidston? (a fellow owner of course) McLaren themselves? AN Other?
Who would you have check the car over on their behalf prior to purchase?
Would you be willing to go with that person as a 2nd pair of eyes to inspect (assuming you knew them reasonably well)
Who would you then send them to if they wanted to repaint and retrim the car (as seems common)
Would you suggest essential modifications? Not necessarily the extensive work you've had done. But something like the HID kit or the uprated AC or "add a bit of leather here, as it rubs on your elbow otherwise" IIRC you had the LM handbrake but it got silly hot to touch in the summer.
And lastly, would you advise on price? Are you au fait enough with current or recent sales, to be able to put a realistic value on the hypothetical roadcar or GTR in front of you?
In my head a road converted GTR is circa £8-10, a decent road car is probably £12ish. That late car with the LM engine and the yellow "delivery miles" cars are probably outliers and slightly more. A LM would be probably nearer £25-30! (of course these owners don't tend to sell. Cant imagine the Sultan ever letting his go)
- I have been asked for and have given advice about buying F1s, most recently earlier this year, a couple of times last year, and so on. What I would advise would depend on the circumstances.
A friend sold an F1 through Kidston and was happy with how he was treated, so that would be a possibility, although it appears that Kidston normally advertises what he has for sale, so if he's not advertising one he probably would not be the first call.
Usually what these dealers are looking for is a conversation starter. If they get a live would-be buyer, that gives them an excuse to contact all the owners whom they know. They will get some feedback from those owners and, even if nothing gets done with the original would-be buyer, they might learn that car "X" is for sale for more than that buyer wants to pay. The dealer then will contact other people who might be potential buyers, marketing car "X".
- Most of the time, MSO (McLaren) will for a fee check over a car and give an inspection report. They are the only recognised authority at that level, although the specialist at McLaren Philadelphia is good.
- In some circumstances I would be willing to accompany them to inspect the car and in the past I have done so, test driven the car, etc.
- For repainting, the whole car has to be taken apart, so the factory would be the safest option, although I have seen one car that was repainted by an independent and it was as good a paint job as I have ever seen on any car. For retrimming, it's not as critical. At one stage I was not happy with the trimmer that MSO were using so I used an independent (with MSO's cooperation to disassemble and reassemble the pieces).
- What modifications? A lot of the cars have had the factory upgrades for A/C and headlamps. They are kind-of required. I don't think the standard four-point driver's harnesses are that good, so that would be another obvious thing. Aesthetic changes (including high-downforce kit) are personal. Mechanical changes such as I have done are tricky and a big job - not something that should be done by halves. Problem with that LM-style handbrake was that its edges tended to cut into one's hand; the normal wood version works better.
- Price-wise, these days a nice standard car is more than $20m, maybe $22m on a good day. A true LM would be - IMO - $35m, that sort of thing.
- Re Brunei, they started out with 9 cars. One has been crashed, not repaired and its remains are in a shed in Brunei, one was sold about a dozen years ago, another was sold more recently. Fwiw, because of the climate and problematical conditions in which the Brunei cars have been stored, the market tends to discount a car coming from there. It's not a huge difference, but there is a difference.
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