Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Rocket.]

Sway said:

Flat out at the minute chap - could I be cheeky and ask to reserve one? Will provide evidence of donation by tomorrow morning...

S

Ok done, if anyone else wants one message me before donating, will check tonight to see if I have anymore.

[AlmostUseful]

S1KRR said:

I

That looks bloody amazing, I think it’s the sun that makes the wheels look good, which makes it look faster!

[flemke]

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

I agree. I don't know what the point is to generate so much downforce in a road car when you can't use it. Even on the Autobahn, the fastest drivers are in heavy but powerful Mercs and Audis, as the road surface and traffic are not really good enough for 250kph in a GT3 (bar for rare moments).

In advanced road driving, the cardinal, inviolable rule is that you must always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. It doesn't really matter how much downforce you can theoretically exploit in order to take a bend at a higher speed. Yes, more downforce might slightly shorten your stopping distance, but that distance will be much more affected by human reaction time, braking system reaction time, road surface condition, and tyre choice and condition (not to mention how well the driver is paying attention).

As I have said before, of all the modern developments contributing to potential speed of road cars, downforce is least important. Of course it is possible to create a car that is aerodynamically dysfunctional, such as the original Audi TT, but, apart from the rare exception, cars without wings and other elaborate aero addenda are perfectly fine, indeed often ideal, for road driving.

Edited by flemke on Wednesday 11th December 22:02

[Caddyshack]

Would the fan not just come in to effect when in track mode on a smooth surface. Ground effect is hardly going to be make or break it at under 100 mph?

The TT was a knee jerk reaction to a very few high speed 150mph spins. Idiots still think 4wd means you can defy the laws of physics when cornering. 4 wd is largely a traction device marketed well in the early yrs to make people think that it helped cornering. I have a TT with pre recall setup and with a haldex controller it rivals a good boxster for steering feel and front end turn in.

[flemke]

andyps said:

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

When it was revealed and GM said it would include a fan I was reminded of Mario Andretti saying it threw stones out of the back. Whilst untrue on the race car which was highly unlikely to be running on a surface where there would be loose stones for the fan to pick up and throw out (possibly some rubber from tyres but I don't remember that being much of an issue when the BT46B was developed). However, it surely could be an issue with a road car where the surfaces it would be used on are much less well maintained. Imagine driving it over a road which had just been treated with tar and gravel as so many UK roads are

I cannot speak to the physics of it, but Gordon told me that any pebbles would be thrown radially, hit the fan cowling, and drop to the ground long before the following (road) car had reach them. They would not be thrown backwards.
He also said that the complaint about pebbles during the Swedish GP had been started by Lauda, who immediately recognised that none of the others could hope to compete against the fan car. He said that Niki had gone to the other drivers and persuaded them as a group that they should protest to the regulator. They couldn't come up with a genuine reason to protest that another car was simply better designed than their own, so they decided to make the pebbles allegation - knowing that it was a baseless canard.

[flemke]

stefan1 said:

flemke said:

cc8s said:

Fantastic car and reviewer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQPIBFz1ZJo

Ah, yes - one of my all-time favourite cars.
I think I can honestly say that I had something to do with that car's owner, who is a friend of mine, getting his, after he tried mine and liked it. Some of the mods Henry mentioned were things I had asked Chris to do when I ordered mine, such as the relocation (and enlargement) of the fuel tank. On mine, unlike on the car in the video, we reversed the shift pattern to make it more intuitive: pull back to shift up.
Regarding the brakes, however, there really is no reason at all to upgrade them beyond standard. Into most bends all you need to do is to lift and the grip and lack of mass in relation to the frontal area/drag mean that the car will usually slow itself enough that braking is completely unnecessary.
As to whether it is too light, I must admit that in a strong crosswind the car can get tricky. Also, as Henry alluded, there is an issue with whether the car is heavy enough for street-legal tyres to key into the asphalt. There is a road-legal rally tyre that we put on mine, softer than pretty much anything designed specifically for a road car, and they work fine.
I do wish that the engine had more torque. Standing starts up a hill are a killer (at least for anyone who, like me, is loath to slip a clutch). As I think I have related here before, a number of years ago Chris, Gordon and I agreed to do a Rocket II, edition of only two, with the main difference being a modern, higher-torque engine and possibly direct drive. After we got started, however, each of us realised that, whilst it was a great idea, we probably should be doing other things and so we dropped it.

Mention was made of the lovely logo. I want to point out that it was designed by the brilliant Rick Ward, whose CV includes Beatles album covers and other very clever things. As I did relate here before, I spent quite a bit of time trying to get that logo used in a set of special key fobs. We got most of the way there, but the supplier was a bit slow on its feet (in fairness, by their standards it would have been a small job), then I got submerged in some very demanding personal stuff, and the mock-up is still sitting in my desk somewhere.

I can indeed vouch for this - I would not be in the fortunate position to own one of these fantastic cars were it not for my friend Flemke. I still remember picking up your car which you had very kindly lent me for a weekend to try out - driving it in London traffic was an experience I shall not forget!

But it did inspire me to accept Chris Craft's invitation to commission one of the second batch cars, and I rather followed your advice on things like fuel tank placement.

I've done about 2,500 miles in the car now - not huge, but every one has been a "fun" mile with no transit mileage (I trailered the car to Wales for the video with Henry). The one thing I plan to do next year is take it to a track; perhaps we should organise something together?

Anyhow, delighted with Henry's lovely video of the car which captures its essence very well.

One weekend I drove mine from the UK to the 'Ring and back. I think you really need to do that, Stefan, in order to get another Pistonheads stripe on your sleeve.
Then again 800 mi to the 'Ring and back is nothing compared to what Chris's and Gordon's sons once did - together in one car they circumnavigated western Europe. Most of that was with Gordon's son riding shotgun in the back, and he is nearly as tall as Gordon is. Respect!

[flemke]

pistolpedro said:

I visited what I thought was the LCC factory a number of years ago, (although looking on google maps now I don't think it was, I remember it being in a converted barn outside of London, it was a lovely workshop) 

Chris had a couple in build, from what I understood the OZ wheels were no longer available he mentioned Volk (TE37?) as a possible alternative, I remember thinking what a special thing it was,  

Seemed like a nice guy, slightly grumpy but funny with it 

I've often wondered about the GMD logo and if there's any connection / influence with Portmeirion?, can see a lot of similarities between the two

Ultimately Chris came to prefer RAYS wheels for the Rocket: very light, nicely made.

[flemke]

S1KRR said:

I see your "garage" has an A2 as well.

I'm sure Flemkes opinion is valid on many automotive issues, but he's SO wrong on the love for the A2


@Flemke.

Erik posted a great pic of your car to his Instagram.




(From the Autocar article on the T50) Have you any recent pics to share with us?

No recent photos of which I am aware.

What have you got against the A2?

[andyps]

flemke said:

andyps said:

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

When it was revealed and GM said it would include a fan I was reminded of Mario Andretti saying it threw stones out of the back. Whilst untrue on the race car which was highly unlikely to be running on a surface where there would be loose stones for the fan to pick up and throw out (possibly some rubber from tyres but I don't remember that being much of an issue when the BT46B was developed). However, it surely could be an issue with a road car where the surfaces it would be used on are much less well maintained. Imagine driving it over a road which had just been treated with tar and gravel as so many UK roads are

I cannot speak to the physics of it, but Gordon told me that any pebbles would be thrown radially, hit the fan cowling, and drop to the ground long before the following (road) car had reach them. They would not be thrown backwards.
He also said that the complaint about pebbles during the Swedish GP had been started by Lauda, who immediately recognised that none of the others could hope to compete against the fan car. He said that Niki had gone to the other drivers and persuaded them as a group that they should protest to the regulator. They couldn't come up with a genuine reason to protest that another car was simply better designed than their own, so they decided to make the pebbles allegation - knowing that it was a baseless canard.

I hope Gordon is right about the direction of the stones if I'm ever fortunate enough to follow one on the road!! Thanks for the information.

[bolidemichael]

My beautiful Rocket pin badge has arrived in the post. Thank you Rocket.

[S1KRR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBuspGpEZes


Little semi animated film about F1 from Car Throttle. Seems accurate enough on the info


And YES. 040 makes a very, very brief appearance at 15seconds

[ferrisbueller]

andyps said:

flemke said:

andyps said:

Sway said:

What are your thoughts on a road car using ground effect as it's main source of downsource?

To my mind, it seems exactly the wrong (if highly efficient) approach to take for "normal" roads...

When it was revealed and GM said it would include a fan I was reminded of Mario Andretti saying it threw stones out of the back. Whilst untrue on the race car which was highly unlikely to be running on a surface where there would be loose stones for the fan to pick up and throw out (possibly some rubber from tyres but I don't remember that being much of an issue when the BT46B was developed). However, it surely could be an issue with a road car where the surfaces it would be used on are much less well maintained. Imagine driving it over a road which had just been treated with tar and gravel as so many UK roads are

I cannot speak to the physics of it, but Gordon told me that any pebbles would be thrown radially, hit the fan cowling, and drop to the ground long before the following (road) car had reach them. They would not be thrown backwards.
He also said that the complaint about pebbles during the Swedish GP had been started by Lauda, who immediately recognised that none of the others could hope to compete against the fan car. He said that Niki had gone to the other drivers and persuaded them as a group that they should protest to the regulator. They couldn't come up with a genuine reason to protest that another car was simply better designed than their own, so they decided to make the pebbles allegation - knowing that it was a baseless canard.

I hope Gordon is right about the direction of the stones if I'm ever fortunate enough to follow one on the road!! Thanks for the information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHHdMFBRco

Worth a listen as Gordon goes into some detail about the fan car and discusses his new project. Mentions Andretti making up stories, at Chapman's behest, and coming clean many years later and the political reasons for it being withdrawn. Also the physical aspects which dictates where the debris would actually go.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th December 22:13

[hurstg01]

Received my pin yesterday, thanks Rocket

[flemke]

ferrisbueller said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHHdMFBRco

Worth a listen as Gordon goes into some detail about the fan car and discusses his new project. Mentions Andretti making up stories, at Chapman's behest, and coming clean many years later and the political reasons for it being withdrawn. Also the physical aspects which dictates where the debris would actually go.

Enjoyable interview. Thanks.

[flemke]

S1KRR said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBuspGpEZes


Little semi animated film about F1 from Car Throttle. Seems accurate enough on the info


And YES. 040 makes a very, very brief appearance at 15seconds

Thanks. Not quite sure what was the point of the opening graphic with the chassis numbers, but I'll put it in the same mental file as all the other things about the universe that I shall never understand.

[Szulc]

I was so happy to see the carfection video of the rocket, especially as it was one instantly recognizable from PH.

I love how Henry mentioned some of the exact stuff as Chris Harris did in his review.. In the workshop, you can see a rocket with similar colors to Flemke's rocket.

Still waiting patiently on that book. Anyone know of any collectable items besides the pins? I hope we can get the leather keychain project fired up again.

[andyps]

ferrisbueller said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHHdMFBRco

Worth a listen as Gordon goes into some detail about the fan car and discusses his new project. Mentions Andretti making up stories, at Chapman's behest, and coming clean many years later and the political reasons for it being withdrawn. Also the physical aspects which dictates where the debris would actually go.

Edited by ferrisbueller on Thursday 19th December 22:13

Finally got round to listening to that over the last week, a good interview as all I've heard are with GM.

[epom]

Speaking of all things Rocket, I saw on social media (can’t remember which one) that one of the high end dealers have bought a red Rocket in Japan. And no can’t remember which dealer either very useful post, I know

[Ligne]

epom said:

Speaking of all things Rocket, I saw on social media (can’t remember which one) that one of the high end dealers have bought a red Rocket in Japan. And no can’t remember which dealer either very useful post, I know

It was Duncan Hamilton, who I’d guess have dealt with the majority of recent Rocket sales. Did well to find that one in Japan.

[Ligne]

Szulc said:

I was so happy to see the carfection video of the rocket, especially as it was one instantly recognizable from PH.

I love how Henry mentioned some of the exact stuff as Chris Harris did in his review.. In the workshop, you can see a rocket with similar colors to Flemke's rocket.

Still waiting patiently on that book. Anyone know of any collectable items besides the pins? I hope we can get the leather keychain project fired up again.

I’m also eagerly awaiting the Rocket book but I’m not sure what is happening with it. The last I heard was from somebody at Duncan Hamilton who is apparently helping with the process. The Rocket owner (who is/was a PH poster) that started the book may be on here and able to update though. Or maybe Flemke and Stefan have some info