Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

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anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Caddyshack said:
SpeckledJim said:
Caddyshack said:
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
That is crazy for what it is.
True, but if it helps, so is £15,000,000 for an F1.
Well, I did consider that but at least the F1 has a purpose built engine that is one of the greatest ever made, it has unique features and there are a lot of very carefully considered components…it would be hard to buy anything similar or build similar - t50 is a cheap alternative now.

You could get very close to the rocket with many alternatives - forumula Fords have been put on the road, radicals, tiger ERA etc.

£15m for anything is mad…even a house when you really think about it.
Talking my own book, but for £250K you could get a BAC Mono which into all intents and purposes a road going (low downforce) F3 car.

Caddyshack

10,600 posts

205 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Archie2050 said:
Caddyshack said:
SpeckledJim said:
Caddyshack said:
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
That is crazy for what it is.
True, but if it helps, so is £15,000,000 for an F1.
Well, I did consider that but at least the F1 has a purpose built engine that is one of the greatest ever made, it has unique features and there are a lot of very carefully considered components…it would be hard to buy anything similar or build similar - t50 is a cheap alternative now.

You could get very close to the rocket with many alternatives - forumula Fords have been put on the road, radicals, tiger ERA etc.

£15m for anything is mad…even a house when you really think about it.
Talking my own book, but for £250K you could get a BAC Mono which into all intents and purposes a road going (low downforce) F3 car.
BAC mono is a very good example.

Timer

327 posts

155 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
There is one currently for sale in the USA... $495k I believe. As far as I know it hasn't sold.

https://www.meccanicshop.com/1996-Light-Car-Compan...

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
Timer said:
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
There is one currently for sale in the USA... $495k I believe. As far as I know it hasn't sold.

https://www.meccanicshop.com/1996-Light-Car-Compan...
That is a bit ridiculous and, like a lot of the crap I see advertised, may not be a real car for sale. Plenty of these schmucks will offer 'a car' at a price way over the real market. If they get a response from an uneducated buyer, they then go out looking for a real car.

The real market is £225-300k.

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
That's the thing. Price aside, there just are not many in existence, and several are in Japan as well.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
quotequote all
flemke said:
That is a bit ridiculous and, like a lot of the crap I see advertised, may not be a real car for sale. Plenty of these schmucks will offer 'a car' at a price way over the real market. If they get a response from an uneducated buyer, they then go out looking for a real car.

The real market is £225-300k.
In many ways that's hugely depressing for me.

It's one of very few 'dream' cars for me - and it wasn't too many years ago I could realistically 'plan' to be able to own one.

Not anymore! The market price has risen far faster than my ability.

Szulc

22 posts

111 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Sway said:
In many ways that's hugely depressing for me.

It's one of very few 'dream' cars for me - and it wasn't too many years ago I could realistically 'plan' to be able to own one.

Not anymore! The market price has risen far faster than my ability.
+1

There's no affordable GM designed product in sight. OX never went anywhere, Yamaha gave up because of profitability, and we won't even talk about the TVR.
That Rocket they posted above will be going on Bring A Trailer soon, will be interesting to hear from the comments and if it sells. There's a short driving video already up on 1600 Veloce youtube channel.

I'd love to see a short film about the Rocket. The book was enjoyable and I'm sure there's more that deserves to be told.



flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Szulc said:
Sway said:
In many ways that's hugely depressing for me.

It's one of very few 'dream' cars for me - and it wasn't too many years ago I could realistically 'plan' to be able to own one.

Not anymore! The market price has risen far faster than my ability.
+1

There's no affordable GM designed product in sight. OX never went anywhere, Yamaha gave up because of profitability, and we won't even talk about the TVR.
That Rocket they posted above will be going on Bring A Trailer soon, will be interesting to hear from the comments and if it sells. There's a short driving video already up on 1600 Veloce youtube channel.

I'd love to see a short film about the Rocket. The book was enjoyable and I'm sure there's more that deserves to be told.
Yes, that is a fine book.

Rocket.

1,510 posts

248 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Timer said:
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
There is one currently for sale in the USA... $495k I believe. As far as I know it hasn't sold.

https://www.meccanicshop.com/1996-Light-Car-Compan...
One thing that is for sure is that car was not built in 1996, but I suspect it says that to get around the 25 year rule in the U.S. it was one of the cars built much later on. Chris Craft deserved far more credit than he ever got for the Rocket but of course it's GM's name that's inflated the values.

Dimebars

881 posts

93 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
I see Joe Macari has recently sold a silver F1

No idea on price or history mind you

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Given the prices of Rockets, is there anything to stop another batch being made? They’re presumably pretty much handmade with lots of milled parts (some of which could be 3D printed now?)

Or were they sold as a limited edition with a guaranteed fixed number of cars?


hurstg01

2,909 posts

242 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Dimebars said:
I see Joe Macari has recently sold a silver F1

No idea on price or history mind you
Chassis 045 in Dark Silver, its had a number of owners (7 [+?], in different locations [Germany, US where it was imported as an Ameritech, UK]

ArgonautX

157 posts

50 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
flemke said:
That is a bit ridiculous and, like a lot of the crap I see advertised, may not be a real car for sale. Plenty of these schmucks will offer 'a car' at a price way over the real market. If they get a response from an uneducated buyer, they then go out looking for a real car.

The real market is £225-300k.
Even that sum of money is crazy. I know that they're rare, but of all the Murray creations, that one doesn't appeal much. They're not pretty nor practical and one can (home)build or buy cars of similar weight and power. Mind you, a mk4 Golf R32 sold for 104 000$ on BAT, so maybe my viewpoint is slightly out of fashion.

F1GTRUeno

6,335 posts

217 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
hurstg01 said:
Chassis 045 in Dark Silver, its had a number of owners (7 [+?], in different locations [Germany, US where it was imported as an Ameritech, UK]
Do you know where the new owner is located (obviously not their address or town but country-wise maybe?)

hurstg01

2,909 posts

242 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
F1GTRUeno said:
hurstg01 said:
Chassis 045 in Dark Silver, its had a number of owners (7 [+?], in different locations [Germany, US where it was imported as an Ameritech, UK]
Do you know where the new owner is located (obviously not their address or town but country-wise maybe?)
Best I feel I can give is its continent - Europe


Edited by hurstg01 on Wednesday 8th March 16:33

Rocket.

1,510 posts

248 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
Archie2050 said:
Given the prices of Rockets, is there anything to stop another batch being made? They’re presumably pretty much handmade with lots of milled parts (some of which could be 3D printed now?)

Or were they sold as a limited edition with a guaranteed fixed number of cars?
In theory there nothing to stop more being made apart from those still involved agreeing to do so (this doesn't involve GM)

Yes a lot of handmade expensive to make parts, 3D printing could well help. The IVA test is now a lot harder to pass than it was which would be an additional headache.

Never sold as a limited edition or guaranteed fixed number, truth is like the F1 back in the day they struggled to find enough buyers to make it viable business.

ArgonautX

157 posts

50 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
quotequote all
hurstg01 said:
Best I fell I can give is its continent - Europe
Eastern Europe?

flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
Rocket. said:
Archie2050 said:
Given the prices of Rockets, is there anything to stop another batch being made? They’re presumably pretty much handmade with lots of milled parts (some of which could be 3D printed now?)

Or were they sold as a limited edition with a guaranteed fixed number of cars?
In theory there nothing to stop more being made apart from those still involved agreeing to do so (this doesn't involve GM)

Yes a lot of handmade expensive to make parts, 3D printing could well help. The IVA test is now a lot harder to pass than it was which would be an additional headache.

Never sold as a limited edition or guaranteed fixed number, truth is like the F1 back in the day they struggled to find enough buyers to make it viable business.
As you say, the IP is privately owned, and the owner, unrelated to any Murrays or Crafts, has shown no inclination to do anything with it (apart from helping Jay Leno to create his US-built car).

About 10 years ago Chris was thinking about doing another build run but, when he composed the prospective bill of materials, each car was going to cost him more than £70k in parts alone, which was a lot more than he had ever charged for a car so he decided against it.
A big hurdle was the transaxle. It is unique to the car, designed and manufactured by Weismann in the States. Pete Weismann was supposedly a good guy but he passed away years ago and his widow, who took over the company, had a reputation for being, shall we say, somewhat less cooperative than Pete had been.


Fermit

12,787 posts

99 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
vincegail said:
The Rockets seems to be the most obtainable Gordon Murray car. Pricewise, that is. (or was) Although I recall Gordon mention in a video where somebody visits his garage (don't remember the video) that one changed hands for 250K recently. So not so obtainable, maybe. They are much rarer than F1s or T50s, and seem to rise in price as well!
Worth every penny for the badge alone. It's got to be one of the best ever put on a car


shirt

22,508 posts

200 months

Monday 13th March 2023
quotequote all
Archie2050 said:
Talking my own book, but for £250K you could get a BAC Mono which into all intents and purposes a road going (low downforce) F3 car.
disagree. bac mono is tubular chassis with fancy components, essentially a high end atom. f3 car is carbon monocoque with the engine/gearbox as a stressed member. power delivery, suspension compliance and cornering ability are on different continents.

i think a rocket would be more fun on the road than a mono. more compliant, skinnier tyres, easier to place on the road. a sports car not a racer for the road.

iirc the blurb out of GMA at the time of the initial PR release was for a sub 100k car. now i can't afford a 100k car, but i could stretch myself to one if it meant having a GM designed 2 seat sports car to drive for the rest of my days. i do hope they build such a thing, lively 4 cyl, manual, FR layout, 2 seats. cmon gordon get it done!