BMW E46 M3, what is it to you, iconic, overrated, epic etc.?
Discussion
blade7 said:
E30M3ZONE said:
I wonder if some were worse than others...mine was a low mileage <8000 miles when purchased. Mind you I do have a RS2000 Mk2 with less than 20000 which is a bit of a benchmark in terms of gear change... maybe I was just expecting too much.
The RS2 gearbox is basically a Capri/Cortina box with a modified gear lever. I don't remember anyone raving about Capri/Cortina 4sp gearboxes back in the day. I expect an M3 gearchange could be similarly improved.blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
True. The E36 M3 was pretty crap.
Seems an odd thing to say, when you're chucking £5k at an E36 328. Aside from the engine/gearbox/diff/trim that are better on the M3 Evo, they seemed very similar to me. I think the issue is that IMO most, if not all, BMWs are pretty average out of the box so need a fair bit of work to get them up to scratch.
Depends on what one looks for in a car and their expectations. Some people will jump into a 80k mile E46 M3 on original parts and think it is amazing. Others won't.
Depends where you set your bar and how much you want to spend. They all make good base cars but after that, you can tweak them how you like.
Personally I didn't want to drop what would be £20k + into an E46 M3 as I have other cars I would rather buy at that price point. £8k ish on my car was fine and for the use it is put to, a lot more fun than virtually any E36/E46 M3 for anywhere near the same outlay.
At this age, steering, suspension, possibly diff, gearbox etc. would likely all need upgrading /rebuilding. And that's before you upgrade/fix other bits.
SidewaysSi said:
Quite different for me and I didn't like the extra mass of the M3 which is very noticeable.
I think the issue is that IMO most, if not all, BMWs are pretty average out of the box so need a fair bit of work to get them up to scratch.
Depends on what one looks for in a car and their expectations. Some people will jump into a 80k mile E46 M3 on original parts and think it is amazing. Others won't.
Depends where you set your bar and how much you want to spend. They all make good base cars but after that, you can tweak them how you like.
Personally I didn't want to drop what would be £20k + into an E46 M3 as I have other cars I would rather buy at that price point. £8k ish on my car was fine and for the use it is put to, a lot more fun than virtually any E36/E46 M3 for anywhere near the same outlay.
At this age, steering, suspension, possibly diff, gearbox etc. would likely all need upgrading /rebuilding. And that's before you upgrade/fix other bits.
Ref the first bolded, what mass production based sports models aren't?I think the issue is that IMO most, if not all, BMWs are pretty average out of the box so need a fair bit of work to get them up to scratch.
Depends on what one looks for in a car and their expectations. Some people will jump into a 80k mile E46 M3 on original parts and think it is amazing. Others won't.
Depends where you set your bar and how much you want to spend. They all make good base cars but after that, you can tweak them how you like.
Personally I didn't want to drop what would be £20k + into an E46 M3 as I have other cars I would rather buy at that price point. £8k ish on my car was fine and for the use it is put to, a lot more fun than virtually any E36/E46 M3 for anywhere near the same outlay.
At this age, steering, suspension, possibly diff, gearbox etc. would likely all need upgrading /rebuilding. And that's before you upgrade/fix other bits.
Ref the 2nd bolded, absolutely. Expectation management is key to how you view any car. If someone has cone from a life of Caterhams, Elise' etc, a 1500kg E46 might seem a little bit of a dull, soft squidgy tool. Coming from a Corsa SRi or a Corolla , the opposite might be true. I've driven an SMG coupe and a CSL. Coming from my E30 M3 which has a few mods, the coupe felt a little disappointing. Not particularly fast, less sharp to steer and didn't sound that great. The CSL felt more focussed. Stiff, responsive, more midrange grunt and a better sound. But it still felt less focussed and heavier that my E30. Driving them now against my 535d Tourer, I expect both Coupe and CSL would feel much sharper in comparison.
All you can do is compare them to the competition at the time and IIRC, of all the mass produced based sporty models at the time, the E36 M3 was the best.
Danxr46 said:
I think the m3e46 sounds like a bag of sh*t. I’ve heard many and the engine note or exhaust note say isn’t anything special. They look okay but the interior is dated I think even for its age. Okay csl wise but they are nothing special.
"bag of sh*t"? I just don't remotely agree.
I drove 50k miles in mine as an every day car and also took it to Croft, Nurburgring and Knockhill.
I had AP 6 pots up front and AP 4 pots at the rear. Brakes were now fantastic. Intrax coilovers all round and a Supersprint light weight racing cat back exhaust with no centre resonator as well as turner bush limiting kit at the rear. I also had CSL wheels and Michelin PS2s.
The only downside that actually bothered me of the car was the standard steering rack was slow. Otherwise it was a seriously cool car. At the time the options available was moving to a CSl rack at +£1,000 so I held off.
I completed multiple 8:20 second laps BTG of the Nurburgring with 4 people onboard on that setup. Loads of fun.
Maybe not perfect but no chance a bag of sh*t.
RW
The exhaust was loud but it got rid of the tinny noise you are talking about.
Ali_T said:
The last great M3 but nowhere near as quick as owners think it is.
From say 30 to 100mph it isn't much faster than most sporty cars (example, clio 182?) which aligns with what you are saying, but if you hold 4th gear to 8,000 rpm in a well running one with good valve clearances on v-power, and then drop into fifth and on to the speed limiter it is in a more natural area of performance.That is my experience. If the test only lasts to 100mph, it won't seem anything special at all.
RW
Shiv_P said:
SidewaysSi said:
RemyMartin81D said:
Lol. I had 2 328i Sports and crap is a perfect word for it. Hugely overrated car.
So why does the description you wrote under the 328i sport in your garage section read, and I quote "My minty mint 328i Sport. Absolutely love this car."? 
I don't speak chav
.SidewaysSi said:
blade7 said:
SidewaysSi said:
True. The E36 M3 was pretty crap.
Seems an odd thing to say, when you're chucking £5k at an E36 328. Aside from the engine/gearbox/diff/trim that are better on the M3 Evo, they seemed very similar to me. Opinions on how a car sounds are objective and there are just as many people who do like the noise, as don't. The S54 in a brilliant engine and even better when you allow it to breath by fitting a CSL type air box. I've no idea why some people are saying they have no torque? 269 ft/lbs from 5k rpm is more than a 330i and they're hardly lacking.
e30m3Mark said:
Opinions on how a car sounds are objective and there are just as many people who do like the noise, as don't. The S54 in a brilliant engine and even better when you allow it to breath by fitting a CSL type air box. I've no idea why some people are saying they have no torque? 269 ft/lbs from 5k rpm is more than a 330i and they're hardly lacking.
The torque is flat and power climbs linear so maybe they miss the mid-range punch of a yumpy torque curve?The sound of the car can have two characteristics. Well, maybe 3.
Stock M3, crisp and high revving. Replacement exhaust with no resonator... loud and a bit like a touring car (just a view on how mine sounded). Open CSL style in take system and it's all about the induction.
You can have whichever option you like and if stock M3 isn't your cuppa tea that can be stepped round quickly.
RW
e30m3Mark said:
I've no idea why some people are saying they have no torque? 269 ft/lbs from 5k rpm is more than a 330i and they're hardly lacking.
Anyone who says they have no torque is completely missing the point of what the car offers. Torque is mearly something that we use along with revs to get the important figure of power, and the M3 imho was were the power was pretty much perfect for truly enjoying a road car, more than enough but you had to learn the car and get it right, get the gearing wrong and you knew it and looked a chump. This is what makes the E46 M3 such a rewarding car to drive.
It isn't instant power no matter what gear or rev range you are in like so many of the newer cars or the earlier turbo cars.
I had a remapped 335i after my CSL, yeah it was quicker, but that is missing the point. It was sold and replaced with another M3, there is no comparison.
e30m3Mark said:
Opinions on how a car sounds are objective and there are just as many people who do like the noise, as don't. The S54 in a brilliant engine and even better when you allow it to breath by fitting a CSL type air box. I've no idea why some people are saying they have no torque? 269 ft/lbs from 5k rpm is more than a 330i and they're hardly lacking.
I never really liked the noise the S54 made in my Z4M because it was far too tinny and I prefer a deeper tone. I think the no torque comes from if you've been used to a Turbo engine or a powerful diesel engine. I thought my E92 M3/Z4M/330i all lacked torque because max power on those cars is right at the top of the revs. They do feel good at high revs but they feel really flat at lows revs for me.
Everyone argues that you should just use the gearbox which I agree with, but how often can you use 8000 rpm. I just personally prefer more usable performance, each to their own.
Turbo's always lack on the top end but are punchy lower down, whereas Bmw's N/A engines aren't punchy low down but go like the clappers on the top end. I was really happy when BMW went Turbo and dropped the N/A engines from the M cars, I'm in the minority with that though.
I've always fancied one of these since my brother in law turned up in one shortly after launch in 2002. Was so impressed with the handling on the local windy B roads near us. However, prices have risen a fair bit and there seems a lot to look out for.....cracked sub frames, dodgy Vanos etc. My accountant has just forked out £3K on a new SMG gearbox and I'm wondering if its another of those cars that could ruin you.
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
Much as I liked the E90, I just found it too large and heavier than cars I was used to. It was undeniably quick, looked great and sounded lovely but an E46 was closer to the M3 I wanted. I think I've just been spoiled by having an E30 though.
popeyewhite said:
There's only 269 lb/ft in the E46 M3, which is seriously lacking IMO. I think even a boggo 911 of the same year has more.
An '04 997 is actually larger capacity and makes a tad less than the M3. I imagine the M3 is a little heavier?Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff