BMW E46 M3, what is it to you, iconic, overrated, epic etc.?
Discussion
s m said:
E30 always just gets the scribblers' votes
Taste and fancy at the end of the day though
With the E46 M3 leaving me a little flat, I'd love a go in the E30 M3 to see if it actually lives up to all the hype and adulation. Taste and fancy at the end of the day though
The E30 M3 is the only generation of M3 I haven't driven.
Edited by cerb4.5lee on Tuesday 24th April 10:39
blade7 said:
s m said:
In that case they'd always pick the newest M3 though
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I'd like to see a comparison of the E30 Evo and E46 CSL. I haven't driven either, but I think the CSL would be more to my liking.They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I have also driven just about every incarnation of the E30 M3 right from 200bhp variants through 215bhp (which is what I had), Cabrios, EVO IIs up to and including Sport Evo and have to say that apart from the Cabrio they all felt pretty much the same to me. This is hardly surprising given that the power difference across the range really isn't that much and where any extra power lies.
It is true that they could flatter a ham-fisted driver like me but ultimately I got rid of mine because I just found it too flipping slow by modern standards. The merits that they do maintain (apart from looks) are also to be found in an E30 318is.
Trying to compare an E30 M3 with an E46 M3, let alone a CSL, is a complete nonsense.
But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
Much as I love the stock E30 M3 you need to remember this is a car first built 32 years ago! That said, there are some well trodden paths of modification that bring performance on par with new, modern equivalents. A bit more power, a lower final drive, better brakes and stickier rubber make a hell of a difference without spoiling what was so special about them.
derin100 said:
But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
Let's hope that all the people awaiting the new Renault A110 aren't disappointed after all the great reviews - it's being glorified similarly s m said:
E30 always just gets the scribblers' votes
Taste and fancy at the end of the day though
Exactly. Nearly 30 years ago I could have bought the an E30 M3, I expect it would have been a bit better in the slower corners than the car I bought instead. Whenever I had a play with one back then I never regretted my decision.Taste and fancy at the end of the day though
I've owned two, an SMG convertible and a manual Coupe, miss them badly, manual was a better drive but the vert was epic with the roof down. Only thing that went wrong was I needed a new slave cylinder on the SMG. Would buy one back in a heartbeat if I had the space and need, I just think they look so good standard, with the diamond cut wheels. *trawls the classifieds*
s m said:
blade7 said:
s m said:
greenarrow said:
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
You're probably right about being a group test winner ........Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
......unless it's an M3 group test.
Whenever they seem to get all the M3 models together and pick 'a best one' it always seems to be an E30 variant that gets the most votes
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I used to have all the EVO M series tests and cant remember if they ever pitted a basic E90 M3 against a basic E46....it was always the CSL version or the CS version of the M3 used In these tests, as I recall...
Just thinking off the top of my head that the newer E90 may be a better value purchase now, than an older higher mileage E46 which costs the same....although I guess the E90 isn't yet at the bottom of its deprecation curve.
I remember seeing an E90 coupe for sale in December 2014, for £19,995, when it was 7 years old and thinking if I had the cash I would jump at the chance to buy it....
derin100 said:
Trying to compare an E30 M3 with an E46 M3, let alone a CSL, is a complete nonsense.
But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
Journos are in the business of writing catchy headlines and selling magazines. Around a Multi storey car park an E30 M3 would probably leave a CSL for dead. But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
greenarrow said:
s m said:
blade7 said:
s m said:
greenarrow said:
I'm just wondering now if the E90 is a better bet? People say the E46 M3 is the last great M3, but didn't the E90 win pretty much every group test it was involved in from launch to retirement?
Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
You're probably right about being a group test winner ........Having said that, I believe those models have their own issues don't they?
......unless it's an M3 group test.
Whenever they seem to get all the M3 models together and pick 'a best one' it always seems to be an E30 variant that gets the most votes
They're journos so I guess they're taking things like steering feel, feedback, handling and smiles per mile into account as well
Does always seem to be the E30 though
I used to have all the EVO M series tests and cant remember if they ever pitted a basic E90 M3 against a basic E46....it was always the CSL version or the CS version of the M3 used In these tests, as I recall...
Just thinking off the top of my head that the newer E90 may be a better value purchase now, than an older higher mileage E46 which costs the same....although I guess the E90 isn't yet at the bottom of its deprecation curve.
I remember seeing an E90 coupe for sale in December 2014, for £19,995, when it was 7 years old and thinking if I had the cash I would jump at the chance to buy it....
blade7 said:
derin100 said:
Trying to compare an E30 M3 with an E46 M3, let alone a CSL, is a complete nonsense.
But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
Journos are in the business of writing catchy headlines and selling magazines. Around a Multi storey car park an E30 M3 would probably leave a CSL for dead. But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
I think you're possibly even being a bit kind to some journos. Some are in the pockets of a few 'classic' dealers who stand to make a lot of money by having certain cars/models hyped-up to an almost mythical status that goes way beyond the truth and then end up being sold at totally artificially inflated prices to people who believe what they have read but have no personal experience upon which to base their purchases.
All other things being equal, I would love to have an E30 M3 or a CSL again as they were both great cars to own when I had them but no way at the (inflated) prices they now seem to be for sale at.
HannsG said:
I miss it everyday. I cherished the car and it wanted for nothing. To me, it was one of the best condition E46 M3s out there and the new owner got a bargain.
Even though I made £5K on it after four years and adding a further 30k Miles.
Stunning engine also.
derin100 said:
blade7 said:
derin100 said:
Trying to compare an E30 M3 with an E46 M3, let alone a CSL, is a complete nonsense.
But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
Journos are in the business of writing catchy headlines and selling magazines. Around a Multi storey car park an E30 M3 would probably leave a CSL for dead. But that aside, there are other 'reasons' IMHO why motoring journos write certain things about certain cars and honesty/realism isn't always highest on their agenda of priorities.
I think you're possibly even being a bit kind to some journos. Some are in the pockets of a few 'classic' dealers who stand to make a lot of money by having certain cars/models hyped-up to an almost mythical status that goes way beyond the truth and then end up being sold at totally artificially inflated prices to people who believe what they have read but have no personal experience upon which to base their purchases.
All other things being equal, I would love to have an E30 M3 or a CSL again as they were both great cars to own when I had them but no way at the (inflated) prices they now seem to be for sale at.
Years ago I used to have a very good low mileage - 88,000km - E30 M3 (215bhp) - it had Bilstein/HR shocks/springs, aggressive geo, ss lines, Pagid RS29s and sticky rubber...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
s m said:
I'm sure you're right on a lot of points Derin - I think the advantage a lot of journos have over all but a tiny handful of people on here is that the journos have had the opportunity to drive all the cars in the articles, not just a quick blat in a dealer's demo, but a weekend on Welsh/Scottish roads switching between and driving in convoy with similarly hard driven cars. I've driven an E30 M3 and it was very good - they were 4 or 5k cars when I considered them though.Some of the others I've only been a passenger in so couldn't confirm how they compare other than speed
Those were the days, huh?My friend who had an EVO II at the same time that I had my car sold his to a chap in the Isle of Man for £4K...LOL!
If I was paying todays prices, I would go for an E46 myself. I was lucky that I caught the E30 bus before things went crazy. I paid about the same amount as you'd spend on a half tidy E46 today.
Funnily enough though, I had to do the same mods to my E30 (to unlock its real potential) as I would do to an E46 for the same reason. Brakes, KW coilovers, lower final drive, carbon air box and if it's an SMG, a CSL re flash.
The criticism of the SMG is a bit unfair also. All too often is gets compared to the latest PDK etc but it's an old system. That said, when you're really pushing on it works perfectly. Yes, around town or doing 3 point turns, it's a bit slow and dimwitted but that's a small price to pay in my opinion.
Funnily enough though, I had to do the same mods to my E30 (to unlock its real potential) as I would do to an E46 for the same reason. Brakes, KW coilovers, lower final drive, carbon air box and if it's an SMG, a CSL re flash.
The criticism of the SMG is a bit unfair also. All too often is gets compared to the latest PDK etc but it's an old system. That said, when you're really pushing on it works perfectly. Yes, around town or doing 3 point turns, it's a bit slow and dimwitted but that's a small price to pay in my opinion.
Cheburator mk2 said:
Years ago I used to have a very good low mileage - 88,000km - E30 M3 (215bhp) - it had Bilstein/HR shocks/springs, aggressive geo, ss lines, Pagid RS29s and sticky rubber...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
In the end my experience was just like yours. It was a great car in its day but as you say unless given a very open road and driven by the 'scruff of its neck' it was not a particularly easy or pleasant thing to drive at normal road speeds. And, it was also as you say, a 'high maintenance', highly strung thing.While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
About a year ago I was earnestly on the hunt for a good, unmolested bog standard E46 M3 Coupe manual...I couldn't find one at the time and so got side tracked by 'other stuff'.
derin100 said:
Cheburator mk2 said:
Years ago I used to have a very good low mileage - 88,000km - E30 M3 (215bhp) - it had Bilstein/HR shocks/springs, aggressive geo, ss lines, Pagid RS29s and sticky rubber...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
In the end my experience was just like yours. It was a great car in its day but as you say unless given a very open road and driven by the 'scruff of its neck' it was not a particularly easy or pleasant thing to drive at normal road speeds. And, it was also as you say, a 'high maintenance', highly strung thing.While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
About a year ago I was earnestly on the hunt for a good, unmolested bog standard E46 M3 Coupe manual...I couldn't find one at the time and so got side tracked by 'other stuff'.
e30m3Mark said:
derin100 said:
Cheburator mk2 said:
Years ago I used to have a very good low mileage - 88,000km - E30 M3 (215bhp) - it had Bilstein/HR shocks/springs, aggressive geo, ss lines, Pagid RS29s and sticky rubber...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
In the end my experience was just like yours. It was a great car in its day but as you say unless given a very open road and driven by the 'scruff of its neck' it was not a particularly easy or pleasant thing to drive at normal road speeds. And, it was also as you say, a 'high maintenance', highly strung thing.While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
About a year ago I was earnestly on the hunt for a good, unmolested bog standard E46 M3 Coupe manual...I couldn't find one at the time and so got side tracked by 'other stuff'.
It's also interesting to remember that both in the case of the Sport Evo and the CSL that BMW actually had trouble selling the last of them when new!
e30m3Mark said:
derin100 said:
Cheburator mk2 said:
Years ago I used to have a very good low mileage - 88,000km - E30 M3 (215bhp) - it had Bilstein/HR shocks/springs, aggressive geo, ss lines, Pagid RS29s and sticky rubber...
While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
In the end my experience was just like yours. It was a great car in its day but as you say unless given a very open road and driven by the 'scruff of its neck' it was not a particularly easy or pleasant thing to drive at normal road speeds. And, it was also as you say, a 'high maintenance', highly strung thing.While it was brilliant on a B-road in max attack mode or at the Nurburgring, the rest of the time it was not very nice. Driving in Central London was a pain as the gears spread was not optimal, while the max torque was good, it was higher up the rev range than a 325i and even then stuff like windows regulators, rust, high levels of NVH were beginning to bother me.
In comparison my bone stock E46 M3 would happily do a 8:10BTG at the Ring, drive my kids to school in the hands of my wife and transport me to my MTB haunts in NWales in total comfort, on a wave of Black Sabbath blasting out of the HK stereo...
Would I have another E30 - no - at the money they are now, compared to an E46 - no way...
About a year ago I was earnestly on the hunt for a good, unmolested bog standard E46 M3 Coupe manual...I couldn't find one at the time and so got side tracked by 'other stuff'.
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