Seriously Overpriced Cars

Seriously Overpriced Cars

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Discussion

Randy Winkman

9,056 posts

152 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
Mr lestat said:
Randy Winkman said:
The V5/VIN thing is the part I don't get. I totally get why people love classic cars and personally I love Minis. But to me, the V5/VIN don't make a car original if the body and most of the rest of the car is new. There was a totally knackered Mini Copper S on Bangers and Cash (repeat) the other night that sold for a fortune. It just baffles me. confused
Perhaps a less honest person could use the vin plate and v5 to create a vehicle from a stolen one.

Yes I restored it officer and now it’s worth £20k
Unless I'm mistaken you mean that people buy rotten old cars at a high price and do them up so that they can sell them and misrepresent the history of the vehicle? i.e. not tell the buyer that the only things genuine about their "original" classic car are the V5, the registration mark and the VIN?

Edited to add a comment about you saying "stolen". In the cases I'm thinking about the vehicles wouldn't be stolen. Just old rust-buckets with no value other than the identity.


Edited by Randy Winkman on Tuesday 12th January 12:59

Mr lestat

2,868 posts

153 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Unless I'm mistaken you mean that people buy rotten old cars at a high price and do them up so that they can sell them and misrepresent the history of the vehicle? i.e. not tell the buyer that the only things genuine about their "original" classic car are the V5, the registration mark and the VIN?

Edited to add a comment about you saying "stolen". In the cases I'm thinking about the vehicles wouldn't be stolen. Just old rust-buckets with no value other than the identity.


Edited by Randy Winkman on Tuesday 12th January 12:59
No I mean a nice say Triumph stag gets stolen, disappears for a few months somewhere. A wreck with a V5 and vin plate is found in a barn the identity gets transferred over. Ringing is the term and there is a thread about it on here. It’s the v5 and vin that are valuable. Unsuspecting next owner gets fleeced.

Search for

Ringing kits on eBay, no not on our watch

aaron_2000

4,300 posts

46 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
Mr lestat said:
Randy Winkman said:
Unless I'm mistaken you mean that people buy rotten old cars at a high price and do them up so that they can sell them and misrepresent the history of the vehicle? i.e. not tell the buyer that the only things genuine about their "original" classic car are the V5, the registration mark and the VIN?

Edited to add a comment about you saying "stolen". In the cases I'm thinking about the vehicles wouldn't be stolen. Just old rust-buckets with no value other than the identity.


Edited by Randy Winkman on Tuesday 12th January 12:59
No I mean a nice say Triumph stag gets stolen, disappears for a few months somewhere. A wreck with a V5 and vin plate is found in a barn the identity gets transferred over. Ringing is the term and there is a thread about it on here. It’s the v5 and vin that are valuable. Unsuspecting next owner gets fleeced.

Search for

Ringing kits on eBay, no not on our watch
That's what happened to my dads T reg Impreza turbo wagon in 2003. Fast forward to 2017 and I see the exact same car with the same Speedlines and same alarm stickers in the window being stripped in a scrapyard with 170k on the clock wearing a V reg

The Spruce Goose

26,900 posts

158 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
just watching this, but 81k for a defender...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYKU64utk9s

2021 brings floods and a farm review of the new Defender 110 P400!

PhantomPH

3,580 posts

188 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
Mr lestat said:
Randy Winkman said:
Unless I'm mistaken you mean that people buy rotten old cars at a high price and do them up so that they can sell them and misrepresent the history of the vehicle? i.e. not tell the buyer that the only things genuine about their "original" classic car are the V5, the registration mark and the VIN?

Edited to add a comment about you saying "stolen". In the cases I'm thinking about the vehicles wouldn't be stolen. Just old rust-buckets with no value other than the identity.


Edited by Randy Winkman on Tuesday 12th January 12:59
No I mean a nice say Triumph stag gets stolen, disappears for a few months somewhere. A wreck with a V5 and vin plate is found in a barn the identity gets transferred over. Ringing is the term and there is a thread about it on here. It’s the v5 and vin that are valuable. Unsuspecting next owner gets fleeced.

Search for

Ringing kits on eBay, no not on our watch
going to play Devil's Advo for a second here and ask - where is the fleecing? They've bought exactly what they thought they were buying (a nice Stag) it just happens to be wearing the wrong plate.

Yes, I know, I know...I'm being slightly obtuse here...but the buyer only would get 'fleeced' if the original identity was uncovered and they lost their new (old) car, but how likely is that really? Nobody in the future who restores it is going to voluntarily tell the law and lose their own money, so any future owner will simply put the carpets back down, ignore the iffy wells/rivets and walk away whistling.

It's the (over-used) Trigger's Broom situation that is the real 'issue' - for want of a better word. It's actually the same as above...representing an entire other vehicle as if it were the original. New shell, new chassis, new panels, new interior, new engine...etc etc. "Look at this beautifully restored Mini Van - with 100% new panels, shell, etc. etc" You've restored feck all!

Anyway...

Mr lestat

2,868 posts

153 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
going to play Devil's Advo for a second here and ask - where is the fleecing? They've bought exactly what they thought they were buying (a nice Stag) it just happens to be wearing the wrong plate.

Yes, I know, I know...I'm being slightly obtuse here...but the buyer only would get 'fleeced' if the original identity was uncovered and they lost their new (old) car, but how likely is that really? Nobody in the future who restores it is going to voluntarily tell the law and lose their own money, so any future owner will simply put the carpets back down, ignore the iffy wells/rivets and walk away whistling.

It's the (over-used) Trigger's Broom situation that is the real 'issue' - for want of a better word. It's actually the same as above...representing an entire other vehicle as if it were the original. New shell, new chassis, new panels, new interior, new engine...etc etc. "Look at this beautifully restored Mini Van - with 100% new panels, shell, etc. etc" You've restored feck all!

Anyway...
They have been fleeced because they bought a stolen vehicle and at some point they might get a knock on the door from the police. They will lose the car and it would be returned to the rightful owner, obv all if it gets discovered.

CRA1G

4,645 posts

158 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
going to play Devil's Advo for a second here and ask - where is the fleecing? They've bought exactly what they thought they were buying (a nice Stag) it just happens to be wearing the wrong plate.
"Where's the fleecing? " The poor sod who's had his pride and joy beloved Triumph Stag STOLEN not only the distress but then to have claim on his insurance pay the excess and start all over.?

AstonZagato

10,126 posts

173 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
Mr lestat said:
PhantomPH said:
going to play Devil's Advo for a second here and ask - where is the fleecing? They've bought exactly what they thought they were buying (a nice Stag) it just happens to be wearing the wrong plate.

Yes, I know, I know...I'm being slightly obtuse here...but the buyer only would get 'fleeced' if the original identity was uncovered and they lost their new (old) car, but how likely is that really? Nobody in the future who restores it is going to voluntarily tell the law and lose their own money, so any future owner will simply put the carpets back down, ignore the iffy wells/rivets and walk away whistling.

It's the (over-used) Trigger's Broom situation that is the real 'issue' - for want of a better word. It's actually the same as above...representing an entire other vehicle as if it were the original. New shell, new chassis, new panels, new interior, new engine...etc etc. "Look at this beautifully restored Mini Van - with 100% new panels, shell, etc. etc" You've restored feck all!

Anyway...
They have been fleeced because they bought a stolen vehicle and at some point they might get a knock on the door from the police. They will lose the car and it would be returned to the rightful owner, obv all if it gets discovered.
And there is the poor owner that had his decent car nicked because the thief can ring it! It is a sh!tty thing to do to two people - the owner of the stolen car and the buyer of the ringed one.

Mr lestat

2,868 posts

153 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
AstonZagato said:
Mr lestat said:
PhantomPH said:
going to play Devil's Advo for a second here and ask - where is the fleecing? They've bought exactly what they thought they were buying (a nice Stag) it just happens to be wearing the wrong plate.

Yes, I know, I know...I'm being slightly obtuse here...but the buyer only would get 'fleeced' if the original identity was uncovered and they lost their new (old) car, but how likely is that really? Nobody in the future who restores it is going to voluntarily tell the law and lose their own money, so any future owner will simply put the carpets back down, ignore the iffy wells/rivets and walk away whistling.

It's the (over-used) Trigger's Broom situation that is the real 'issue' - for want of a better word. It's actually the same as above...representing an entire other vehicle as if it were the original. New shell, new chassis, new panels, new interior, new engine...etc etc. "Look at this beautifully restored Mini Van - with 100% new panels, shell, etc. etc" You've restored feck all!

Anyway...
They have been fleeced because they bought a stolen vehicle and at some point they might get a knock on the door from the police. They will lose the car and it would be returned to the rightful owner, obv all if it gets discovered.
And there is the poor owner that had his decent car nicked because the thief can ring it! It is a sh!tty thing to do to two people - the owner of the stolen car and the buyer of the ringed one.
Yes both people have been done over, I know the insurance will no doubt pay out for the original stolen car but I don’t think the new unsuspecting honest owner has a leg to stand on. Their only course of action is to try and claim from the person who sold them the car, if they can find them

PhantomPH

3,580 posts

188 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
TBF I was not looking to be jumped on - dead to anyone who steals/damages anyone else's property. I was more commentating about the current climate. Are people 'ringing' these old cars with regularity these days - given the ubiquity of social media and photos of old cars and circles/followings/fans knowing pretty much where all good cars are? Is it the huge problem it used to be or are roofs more interested in jacking Jag keys with their Android phones instead in 2021?

I have just bought a resto project early 61' Mini which has sliding windows and a push button start. I remember my mate used to have one and you could 'steal' it with a penny (or whatever you could use to turn the ignition barrel). Not sure how I mitigate against that sort of legacy security other than to know my car will eventually be unique and therefore easy to spot by someone buying an old Mini...

WCZ

8,274 posts

157 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
TBF I was not looking to be jumped on - dead to anyone who steals/damages anyone else's property. I was more commentating about the current climate. Are people 'ringing' these old cars with regularity these days - given the ubiquity of social media and photos of old cars and circles/followings/fans knowing pretty much where all good cars are? Is it the huge problem it used to be or are roofs more interested in jacking Jag keys with their Android phones instead in 2021?
depends, some people are doing it just to conserve value, buy a clio v6 or something mileage sensitive, do 7,000 miles a year and reduce it to 1,000 before mot etc

EthanSmale

17,342 posts

142 months

Thursday 14th January
quotequote all
PhantomPH said:
TBF I was not looking to be jumped on - dead to anyone who steals/damages anyone else's property. I was more commentating about the current climate. Are people 'ringing' these old cars with regularity these days - given the ubiquity of social media and photos of old cars and circles/followings/fans knowing pretty much where all good cars are? Is it the huge problem it used to be or are roofs more interested in jacking Jag keys with their Android phones instead in 2021?

I have just bought a resto project early 61' Mini which has sliding windows and a push button start. I remember my mate used to have one and you could 'steal' it with a penny (or whatever you could use to turn the ignition barrel). Not sure how I mitigate against that sort of legacy security other than to know my car will eventually be unique and therefore easy to spot by someone buying an old Mini...
I think that's the main thing - a thief doesn't really need to start it to steal it anyway. Very easy to drag a Mini onto a trailer and then work out how to start it when you've got it somewhere private.

I think that having plenty of detailed pictures and information is the main thing. If it gets stolen, distribute these to large websites like this one and you'll have dozens of people keeping an eye out for it on their eBay etc searches. Even better if it is quite customised, as it sounds like yours will be

Mr lestat

2,868 posts

153 months

Thursday 14th January
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https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14...

I don’t think this chap ever got his TVR engines escort back

irish boy

2,719 posts

199 months

Monday 18th January
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W00DY

13,156 posts

189 months

Monday 18th January
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irish boy said:
Might as well be £150k for all the likelihood it'll sell. I wouldn't bother with it at £1500.

Fun Bus

17,786 posts

181 months

Monday 18th January
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I would at £1,500. But there is nicer for £15k if someone really, really wants a 190.

Bemmer

804 posts

165 months

Monday 18th January
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Don't know which is worst...? someone asking £15,000 or someone saying they wouldn't pay £1,500...laugh

Hugo Stiglitz

30,542 posts

174 months

Monday 18th January
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Fun Bus said:
I would at £1,500. But there is nicer for £15k if someone really, really wants a 190.
The frame is shot around the rear screen. Makes you wonder what's under neath

trickywoo

9,054 posts

193 months

Monday 18th January
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irish boy said:
Its been MOTd every year since at least 2006 doing a total of less than 3k miles in those 14 years.

1 mile there and back to the shops a few times a week.

S54B32

7,359 posts

131 months

Monday 18th January
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To quote a great man...

You’re all a bunch of knobs thinking you’re all merc experts. Cars like these are going up because they’re rare! Might look st in pictures but you when you seen them on the road I reckon all of you low life keyboard warriors look at them then look on eBay to buy one and you wait prices will be going up higher every 10 years. So enjoy ranting for another 10 years lol