RE: Audi RS3: Review
Discussion
Maldini35 said:
Every single journalist has been critical of the jag infotainment in recent models despite the considerable PR home advantage Jag enjoys in the Uk. It's woefully 2nd division I'm afraid.
Andrew Frankel even advised Jag sales staff not to use the screen on test drives in case it puts off prospective buyers. Ouch.
Jag's 60's zenith is a long time ago and most buyers weren't even born then. To suggest in perception terms they are now above the German brands is just plain wrong.
All manufactures employ marketing hype - lord knows we've seen enough of it from Jag recently, be it z list celeb endorsements or pointless and anti-climatic 'stunts' like driving a car over the Thames on wires????
By the sound of your posts it seems like you are believing all this Jag hype nonsense.
You're correct about the infotainment system but there's rather more to a car than that, no? As for brand perception, I suggest you read the surveys that were posted above as what you claim is contradictory to those. There's also the small matter of glowing reviews for most Jaguar models in the past decade or so.Andrew Frankel even advised Jag sales staff not to use the screen on test drives in case it puts off prospective buyers. Ouch.
Jag's 60's zenith is a long time ago and most buyers weren't even born then. To suggest in perception terms they are now above the German brands is just plain wrong.
All manufactures employ marketing hype - lord knows we've seen enough of it from Jag recently, be it z list celeb endorsements or pointless and anti-climatic 'stunts' like driving a car over the Thames on wires????
By the sound of your posts it seems like you are believing all this Jag hype nonsense.
I agree about the cringe-worthy PR stunts and launch events but the difference is that Jaguar at least back up their marketing hype with good products, not overpriced, mass-produced tat.
8bit said:
Maldini35 said:
Every single journalist has been critical of the jag infotainment in recent models despite the considerable PR home advantage Jag enjoys in the Uk. It's woefully 2nd division I'm afraid.
Andrew Frankel even advised Jag sales staff not to use the screen on test drives in case it puts off prospective buyers. Ouch.
Jag's 60's zenith is a long time ago and most buyers weren't even born then. To suggest in perception terms they are now above the German brands is just plain wrong.
All manufactures employ marketing hype - lord knows we've seen enough of it from Jag recently, be it z list celeb endorsements or pointless and anti-climatic 'stunts' like driving a car over the Thames on wires????
By the sound of your posts it seems like you are believing all this Jag hype nonsense.
You're correct about the infotainment system but there's rather more to a car than that, no? As for brand perception, I suggest you read the surveys that were posted above as what you claim is contradictory to those. There's also the small matter of glowing reviews for most Jaguar models in the past decade or so.Andrew Frankel even advised Jag sales staff not to use the screen on test drives in case it puts off prospective buyers. Ouch.
Jag's 60's zenith is a long time ago and most buyers weren't even born then. To suggest in perception terms they are now above the German brands is just plain wrong.
All manufactures employ marketing hype - lord knows we've seen enough of it from Jag recently, be it z list celeb endorsements or pointless and anti-climatic 'stunts' like driving a car over the Thames on wires????
By the sound of your posts it seems like you are believing all this Jag hype nonsense.
I agree about the cringe-worthy PR stunts and launch events but the difference is that Jaguar at least back up their marketing hype with good products, not overpriced, mass-produced tat.
That's another thing, Jag have been banging on about their superior aluminium lightweight construction but it does not seem to make any difference on the scales. Why does British aluminium seem to weigh more than German steel? Is it just Jag hype?
You dismiss German products as mass produced tatt but what is Jag if it's not mass produced? jag would love to be in Audi or Bmw's position. Besides Jag is no Zonda. They are not lovingly hand built by a band of talented artisans but built in factories on production lines and raiding the parts bin for old infotainment systems. If you think otherwise then you are seriously deluded.
Let's look at the sales data. If jaguar products are so superior then why are they not selling better? You blame it on sheep like us believing the marketing hype for the competitors (let's ignore the inferior Jag infotainment product issue for the moment). Well this sounds like jag is suffering from a perception issue but you claim this is not the case. You claim that Jag in fact enjoys the perception of a superior premium brand like Bentley or Bugatti. I'm confused. What an earth can be holding Jag back then?
All this sounds like I dislike Jaguar but I don't. I drove an F type recently and it was one on the most exciting cars I've ever driven. But I'm not prepared to ignore the brands short comings on other models (especially the saloons) out of patriotic ferver . After all that's how we ended up with Leyland.
Jag do seem to be on the up though and hopefully this will continue so that they can stand toe to toe with the Germans in terms quality, perception and importantly sales. They may achieve this but I don't believe they are there just yet.
Dave Hedgehog said:
The EVO review was interesting, especially the start where they slated the MK1 RS3, a car they gave 4.5/5 stars in its review
Jurno's
They did this with the 8P S3 as well. In the initial review, they claimed it was the best car Audi made at the time, and praised it heavily for its driving characteristics. Later, the review disappeared entirely from the Web site, replaced by a generic writeup that covered both the facelift and initial model and including the usual clichés. Nothing new.Jurno's
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 17th April 16:51
Maldini35 said:
...stuff...
OK, you're deliberately misrepresenting what I said. I never said I believed Jaguar to be up there with the likes of Bugatti or Pagani etc., I simply listed a few car brands which do have some prestige, that was all. I don't think of Jaguar in the same way I do Ferrari, Aston Martin etc, but I do think in terms of brand quality they are ahead of Audi. Clearly, according to the recent surveys, I'm not in the minority.Of course Jaguar will use modern, automated production methods and share parts across the model lines, that's the reality of modern car building for all but the most exclusive, niche brands. If you think I think otherwise then you're quite patronising. That doesn't mean they can't build a better quality product though.
As for weight, don't forget that most Jaguars come with a lot of things as standard that you have to specify as options on other brands, so the kerb weights listed will be for base models. By the time you add all the kit to an A4 that an XE has, you're probably in the same ballpark.
Sales figures - simple really, manufacturing capacity. They can only sell as many cars as they can make. I'm surprised you haven't worked that out.
I'm no die-hard Jag man, my XKR is the first one I've owned and it will probably be the last because as much as I like the F-type it's . I looked at lots of things before I settled on the XKR, M6s, RS5s, 911s, Maser Gransports and Granturismo, but for the money it was the nicest, most special thing available and I've never once regretted the choice. Of course, I wasn't just interested in the satnav.
The point I set out to make here was that for the money an RS3 with some options costs there are some seriously compelling alternatives out there.
Edited by 8bit on Thursday 23 April 12:51
scherzkeks said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
The EVO review was interesting, especially the start where they slated the MK1 RS3, a car they gave 4.5/5 stars in its review
Jurno's
They did this with the 8P S3 as well. In the initial review, they claimed it was the best car Audi made at the time, and praised it heavily for its driving characteristics. Later, the review disappeared entirely from the Web site, replaced by a generic writeup that covered both the facelift and initial model and including the usual clichés. Nothing new.Jurno's
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 17th April 16:51
briSk said:
Well I like (the idea of) it.
It's not a trackday car - oh no, nightmare.
It's massively more appealing than the A45 to me. And whilst you can't brag (ha ha, that word) about being surrey's answer to Daigo Saito down the dog and duck like an M4 driver you will at least have a car that's a bit more usable and has a nice sounding engine.
I have always liked the idea of the 135i but then the Golf R came along and whilst it's desperately un-PH I think i'd have one of those instead as you know.. it's a road car and if you have to go putting lsds on it and the like then that's fine but you're going down a very specific route.
It does rather interest me when you get the vitriol against these cars for not being some hard core drift car.. whilst you might not get that impression from evo or whatever.. road cars just aren't all that good for the track unless you modify them (and make them less good for the road)*. if you're a real hardcore enthusiast well you'll have both won't you ? ( )
[ *an old Evo or something being a possible exception but with a 150 mile range etc etc that's not really all that realistic for many people. ]
and donl't get me wrong i am not wild about extra random stuck on crap on cars or anything like that and i couldn't give an arse about 'image'... but i like the idea of this car.
i think the 'image' conscious are all running around in 2.0 diesel s/r/m-sport efforts. in white. with blacked out rear windows. if anything BMW, the marque i always had more time for are the ones that are in some sort of weird 'what the feck are we doing' conundrum. making cars for the barratt brigade. certainly they're no better than VAG now. and certainly that makes them morally worse as BMW started (post bubble car!) on a higher footing but have gone worse... the m3 really does sound dull and the yas marina blue paint looks like it's off a 1990s Ka hire car that's been left in the sun. the m135i is fine and i have been in one and i wouldn;t say no but all this 'dab of oppo' 'RWD is the best thing ever innit' stuff is so dull. i haven;t driven one but from most things i have read a ruddy megane is supposed to have better steering feel than most bmws nowadays..
[ it's funny how things stick in your head. i caught and passed an e92 m3 in a 1.6 eunos at bedford and ever since i have been fully aware of the 'key board enthusiast'. i am a distinctly average driver but there are far too many people who buy these amazing rwd cars who then come on here and berate a perfectly good road car who can't drive for toffee).
(yes this post is littered with typos, poor syntax and dubious punctuation. that doesn't make a sierra a better car than an RS3 because it's RWD).
Amen to all of that. Bored senseless with clueless trolls who believe RWD instantly lifts any car to god like status.It's not a trackday car - oh no, nightmare.
It's massively more appealing than the A45 to me. And whilst you can't brag (ha ha, that word) about being surrey's answer to Daigo Saito down the dog and duck like an M4 driver you will at least have a car that's a bit more usable and has a nice sounding engine.
I have always liked the idea of the 135i but then the Golf R came along and whilst it's desperately un-PH I think i'd have one of those instead as you know.. it's a road car and if you have to go putting lsds on it and the like then that's fine but you're going down a very specific route.
It does rather interest me when you get the vitriol against these cars for not being some hard core drift car.. whilst you might not get that impression from evo or whatever.. road cars just aren't all that good for the track unless you modify them (and make them less good for the road)*. if you're a real hardcore enthusiast well you'll have both won't you ? (
)[ *an old Evo or something being a possible exception but with a 150 mile range etc etc that's not really all that realistic for many people. ]
and donl't get me wrong i am not wild about extra random stuck on crap on cars or anything like that and i couldn't give an arse about 'image'... but i like the idea of this car.
i think the 'image' conscious are all running around in 2.0 diesel s/r/m-sport efforts. in white. with blacked out rear windows. if anything BMW, the marque i always had more time for are the ones that are in some sort of weird 'what the feck are we doing' conundrum. making cars for the barratt brigade. certainly they're no better than VAG now. and certainly that makes them morally worse as BMW started (post bubble car!) on a higher footing but have gone worse... the m3 really does sound dull and the yas marina blue paint looks like it's off a 1990s Ka hire car that's been left in the sun. the m135i is fine and i have been in one and i wouldn;t say no but all this 'dab of oppo' 'RWD is the best thing ever innit' stuff is so dull. i haven;t driven one but from most things i have read a ruddy megane is supposed to have better steering feel than most bmws nowadays..
[ it's funny how things stick in your head. i caught and passed an e92 m3 in a 1.6 eunos at bedford and ever since i have been fully aware of the 'key board enthusiast'. i am a distinctly average driver but there are far too many people who buy these amazing rwd cars who then come on here and berate a perfectly good road car who can't drive for toffee).
(yes this post is littered with typos, poor syntax and dubious punctuation. that doesn't make a sierra a better car than an RS3 because it's RWD).
And to your point on steering. The current BMW EPAS efforts are shocking. Their servotronic system is especially worth avoidance at all costs. The current RS megane is miles better as is the chassis over the m135i. The current VAG steering is also better than current BMW in terms of weight and life around centre although equally lacking in feel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnMxcM7Gbjo
(believe it or not, this is an official audi advertisement)
(believe it or not, this is an official audi advertisement)
EricE said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnMxcM7Gbjo
(believe it or not, this is an official audi advertisement)
Now that really is cringe-worthy.(believe it or not, this is an official audi advertisement)
EFACheck out the sounds in this video with the S1! :-O
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/rs3...
Got an email from Audi invitation to the launch which is 13th June. Might pop in and see it.
http://www.audi.co.uk/content/audi/new-cars/a3/rs3...
Got an email from Audi invitation to the launch which is 13th June. Might pop in and see it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff