RE: Smart motorways are dumb: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
Simple reply........yes you're wrong 
Re: the silly comments about animals on the carriageway, I'm guessing it meant animals as in 1-10, not a 100,000 strong herd of wildebeest which is why there could be animal(s) on the motorway and a particular driver would never see it just in the same way we see the odd smashed car on the hard shoulder but might not have seen the crash.
The reduced speed limits also are good. I suppose it's easy for someone to be frustrated when they are only doing 35mph in a reduced to 50mph zone, but then that ignores the fact they may have only been doing 10-20mph without the reduced speed limit preventing a bottleneck.
Re: the silly comments about animals on the carriageway, I'm guessing it meant animals as in 1-10, not a 100,000 strong herd of wildebeest which is why there could be animal(s) on the motorway and a particular driver would never see it just in the same way we see the odd smashed car on the hard shoulder but might not have seen the crash.
The reduced speed limits also are good. I suppose it's easy for someone to be frustrated when they are only doing 35mph in a reduced to 50mph zone, but then that ignores the fact they may have only been doing 10-20mph without the reduced speed limit preventing a bottleneck.
Raynkar said:
The reduced speed limits also are good. I suppose it's easy for someone to be frustrated when they are only doing 35mph in a reduced to 50mph zone,
I didnt think anyone was complaining about a 50mph limit where traffic speeds are down to 35mph anyway due to congestion. Its the 60 60 50 60 60 ha ha gotcha that seem to cause congestion rather than reduce it.I also dont buy the warning of a random road closure 100s of miles away either
If it's that far away it either ought to be clear by the time youve got there, or signs are showing a suitable local diversion useful for local drivers too
Fastdruid said:
2) It's no different from any other lay-by on any other road. I've had to wait for some considerable time for a gap in the past pulling out from a lay-by. There *will* be one at some point.
The A14 was bad for that. A dual carriageway that should have been a motorway.Short laybys or little chefs ( no wonder they went bust) with no way of getting out into 2 lanes of live traffic. Eventually someone tries to get out and turns it into a car park.
Many of the laybys and little chefs have gone.
Smart motorway, Stupid idea.
the basic problem is there being overused, they've employed however many people to monitor the motorways, and adjust speed limits accordingly. these people now have the honour of sitting on there arse and being paid by the government. what demonic frisby in his fantastic book, Life after the state, refers to as "rent seekers". if you've not read it I recommend it to anyone.
they will now try and use there powers as much as possible to justify there job. every day I have to battle my way through there invented traffic jams on the M25. the section between the M40 and the M1 was finally sorted out when it went to 4 lanes. but then they turned the variable speed limits and information boards on. now you get flashing lights which everyone slows down for, telling me of traffic jams 200 miles away on the M6. they slow you down to 60 - 50- then 40. and then if your lucky you get what I call a false alarm and they tell you that you can do 70 again. time and again as this goes on it is plain to see there never was a problem. but if they do it often enough, they create a jam, and say to themselves, there we are, I said there was a problem. the technical term the highways agency use is, ACTIVE TRAFFFIC MANAGEMENT. or A T M for short, as I call it artificial traffic manufacturing.
they are without a doubt doing more harm than good most of the time. but my favourite sign on the info board, "INCIDENT". in the new smart motorway world, a car stopped on the hard shoulder is classified as an incident. if your lucky that is, most of the time the alledged incident doesn't amount to anything. even though flashing lights warn you about it for miles on end. the whole point of motorways when they were invented, was that you get on them and just go without stopping, that's the reason there called freeways in America. but it seems that minds immeasurably superior to yours and mine have decided they now have a better way of doing it.so to admit they were wrong in there thinking is unlikely in the short term, it will result in a public enquiry to explain who thought it was a good idea to waste so much money, to my mind its yet another example of government envolvement where its not needed. I refer again to the book, "Life after the state" I cannot recommend it highly enough. Its the kind of book you read, and say, " You know ive always kinda thought that". but now someone is finally putting it into words.
To sum up.
They waste electricity
They waste fuel.
They waste time.
They waste tax payers money.
Is there a good point? actually yes, when they tell you that the motorways is clear for the next 20 miles on the info board, that is useful, it means you can do 70MPH without worry. and they can warn you of upcoming jams and road closures when they get the info right that is.
so to get back to where I started, there overused. there not without merit. my estimation is there doing more harm than good 80% of the time.
as far as im aware this has never been debated, on any mainstream media outlet. I say its about time it was. I recommend the Jeramy Vine show on radio 2. if the owners/runners of this site can do that. then it would certainly be a start.
if your pissed of with smart motorways, and your reading this
"YOU ARE THE RESISTANCE"
the basic problem is there being overused, they've employed however many people to monitor the motorways, and adjust speed limits accordingly. these people now have the honour of sitting on there arse and being paid by the government. what demonic frisby in his fantastic book, Life after the state, refers to as "rent seekers". if you've not read it I recommend it to anyone.
they will now try and use there powers as much as possible to justify there job. every day I have to battle my way through there invented traffic jams on the M25. the section between the M40 and the M1 was finally sorted out when it went to 4 lanes. but then they turned the variable speed limits and information boards on. now you get flashing lights which everyone slows down for, telling me of traffic jams 200 miles away on the M6. they slow you down to 60 - 50- then 40. and then if your lucky you get what I call a false alarm and they tell you that you can do 70 again. time and again as this goes on it is plain to see there never was a problem. but if they do it often enough, they create a jam, and say to themselves, there we are, I said there was a problem. the technical term the highways agency use is, ACTIVE TRAFFFIC MANAGEMENT. or A T M for short, as I call it artificial traffic manufacturing.
they are without a doubt doing more harm than good most of the time. but my favourite sign on the info board, "INCIDENT". in the new smart motorway world, a car stopped on the hard shoulder is classified as an incident. if your lucky that is, most of the time the alledged incident doesn't amount to anything. even though flashing lights warn you about it for miles on end. the whole point of motorways when they were invented, was that you get on them and just go without stopping, that's the reason there called freeways in America. but it seems that minds immeasurably superior to yours and mine have decided they now have a better way of doing it.so to admit they were wrong in there thinking is unlikely in the short term, it will result in a public enquiry to explain who thought it was a good idea to waste so much money, to my mind its yet another example of government envolvement where its not needed. I refer again to the book, "Life after the state" I cannot recommend it highly enough. Its the kind of book you read, and say, " You know ive always kinda thought that". but now someone is finally putting it into words.
To sum up.
They waste electricity
They waste fuel.
They waste time.
They waste tax payers money.
Is there a good point? actually yes, when they tell you that the motorways is clear for the next 20 miles on the info board, that is useful, it means you can do 70MPH without worry. and they can warn you of upcoming jams and road closures when they get the info right that is.
so to get back to where I started, there overused. there not without merit. my estimation is there doing more harm than good 80% of the time.
as far as im aware this has never been debated, on any mainstream media outlet. I say its about time it was. I recommend the Jeramy Vine show on radio 2. if the owners/runners of this site can do that. then it would certainly be a start.
if your pissed of with smart motorways, and your reading this
"YOU ARE THE RESISTANCE"
M25 by Potters Bar, we had a puncture and spent 20 mins standing 100m away waving traffic to move over because the lane hadn't been closed - so who's watching the f
king cameras? Recovery won't come because I'm in a live lane, eventually a police office stops (was very nice and understanding and placed his car in front so drivers had some warning - still don't think the lane was closed but couldn't see).
Eventually I get the chuckle brothers roll up in a highway patrol wagon, at this point they close THE WHOLE fkING MOTORWAY (now I feel like a tt) while we limped the car into some pathetic excuse of a layby which was totally unnecessary and while we're struggling to get the stupid wind up jack under the car because the rear had sunk so low, I get Barry chuckle telling me to hurry up and telling me how much disruption I've caused and if the car needs moving to a safe place they'll happily charge me for recovery. If the policeman wasn't there I would have been quite tempted to cave his head in with a wheel brace and dragged him into the ditch. Apparently hard shoulders aren't needed because cars don't break down any more.
Wouldn't be so bad if they had people monitoring the cameras and updating the matrix signs, but that never seem to happen. Decent laybys would help, some are so short I can't even see how you'd build up enough speed to join properly.
This happened over a year ago, but as you can see I am still quite pissed off with the whole ordeal
king cameras? Recovery won't come because I'm in a live lane, eventually a police office stops (was very nice and understanding and placed his car in front so drivers had some warning - still don't think the lane was closed but couldn't see). Eventually I get the chuckle brothers roll up in a highway patrol wagon, at this point they close THE WHOLE f
kING MOTORWAY (now I feel like a tt) while we limped the car into some pathetic excuse of a layby which was totally unnecessary and while we're struggling to get the stupid wind up jack under the car because the rear had sunk so low, I get Barry chuckle telling me to hurry up and telling me how much disruption I've caused and if the car needs moving to a safe place they'll happily charge me for recovery. If the policeman wasn't there I would have been quite tempted to cave his head in with a wheel brace and dragged him into the ditch. Apparently hard shoulders aren't needed because cars don't break down any more.Wouldn't be so bad if they had people monitoring the cameras and updating the matrix signs, but that never seem to happen. Decent laybys would help, some are so short I can't even see how you'd build up enough speed to join properly.
This happened over a year ago, but as you can see I am still quite pissed off with the whole ordeal
Janesy B said:
M25 by Potters Bar, we had a puncture and spent 20 mins standing 100m away waving traffic to move over
(now I feel like a tt) while we limped the car into some pathetic excuse of a layby
I can see the irony (now I feel like a t
t) while we limped the car into some pathetic excuse of a layby I too would feel like a stupid t
t if sat in a live lane causing mayhem when the vehicle was able to limp out of the way Watch and learn amateur http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34050...
It's on PH somewhere
speedyguy said:
I can see the irony
I too would feel like a stupid tt if sat in a live lane causing mayhem when the vehicle was able to limp out of the way
Watch and learn amateur http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34050...
It's on PH somewhere
The tyre was completely shredded and could only move at an absolute crawl for 1/3 of a mile, without any assistance I wouldn't have liked my chances seeing as people were flying up the inside lane only to find a car stranded. At least I was in a position to warn cars approaching rather than being a sitting duck in a car doing 5mph in a live lane. Didn't fancy my chances being rear ended in a 50 year old car.I too would feel like a stupid t
t if sat in a live lane causing mayhem when the vehicle was able to limp out of the way Watch and learn amateur http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34050...
It's on PH somewhere
Janesy B said:
At least I was in a position to warn cars approaching rather than being a sitting duck in a car doing 5mph in a live lane. Didn't fancy my chances being rear ended in a 50 year old car.
I hope you were stood somewhere very safe up the verge then, the car is only a piece of scrap metal at the end of the day. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the public, people don't make a nice sandwich filling between 2 lumps of metal
charltjr said:
You stopped in a live motorway lane for a puncture? Rather than limping the car to a safe place?
Interesting decision.
This (from a different thread) shows why his decision was the right one. A slow moving vehicle is in virtually as much risk as a stationary one. The driver, though, is not.Interesting decision.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
speedyguy said:
I hope you were stood somewhere very safe up the verge then, the car is only a piece of scrap metal at the end of the day.
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the public, people don't make a nice sandwich filling between 2 lumps of metal
I was, well behind the barrier and always facing towards oncoming cars. I've seen too many youtube videos.NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the public, people don't make a nice sandwich filling between 2 lumps of metal
charltjr said:
You stopped in a live motorway lane for a puncture? Rather than limping the car to a safe place?
Interesting decision.
I was on the inside lane, as close as the car could get to the barrier. Just in case you thought I was just chilling out in the middle lane with a fag and paper.Interesting decision.
Cliftonite said:
This (from a different thread) shows why his decision was the right one. A slow moving vehicle is in virtually as much risk as a stationary one. The driver, though, is not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
Exactly.https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
Edited by Janesy B on Wednesday 14th October 18:59
Digby said:
"Smart motorways are dumb: Tell Me I'm Wrong"
You are not wrong.Lots of us have been saying this on here for a long time.
Here was me rather hoping that PH had followed up the offers to go on shift with the HE control room. I also think they're dumb, but HE should get their right of reply.You are not wrong.Lots of us have been saying this on here for a long time.
They'd closed an entire lane of the m25 for about 10 miles at rush hour this morning for literally no reason at all. Can anyone explain how the fk they can't update these things instantly? I obeyed the closure and sat in lane 3 with loads of cars whizzing past me in lane 4 - everybody could see there was no reason for the closure, but I personally can't risk the points for being caught going through a red x.
k they can't update these things instantly? I obeyed the closure and sat in lane 3 with loads of cars whizzing past me in lane 4 - everybody could see there was no reason for the closure, but I personally can't risk the points for being caught going through a red x.Cliftonite said:
This (from a different thread) shows why his decision was the right one. A slow moving vehicle is in virtually as much risk as a stationary one. The driver, though, is not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
True but the Astra had its hazards on, why doesn't it surprise me that it was a white van.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
Edited by Wills2 on Thursday 22 October 20:57
A colleague at work lets me read their copy of the IAM's monthly magazine, which in Summer this year had a (rather patronising) article in called "Smart roads for smart drivers".
It's a rehashed piece of propaganda from Highways England, but written in a way that implies non-IAM drivers need to have things explained in words of one syllable (sorry, don’t want this to be an IAM bashing thread).
I.e. “just as drivers had to learn the different rules for motorways when they were first built, we now need to learn the additional rules for smart motorways.”
“This involves understanding the electronic signs, and knowing what to do if the car breaks down”.
It doesn’t mention control room operators needing to learn the difference between animals being on the road, and animals not being on the road though.
“Research” has apparently determined that most faults still allow the car to be driven, so its simply a matter of leaving the motorway at the next junction. If it won’t make it that far, then simply drive to the next refuge area. Or, if that is too far, try to get the car off the carriage way, such as a grass verge, slip road or service area (as if you wouldn’t of thought of that yourself)
Small comfort for the driver in the youtube clip to know they are the exception to “research”.
Still, whatever the price of managed motorways, I imagine they’re still a damn sight cheaper than constructing additional lanes on the network. And marked BiB patrols cause tail backs nearly as bad as errant “50” signs.
Like most things, I’m sure they looked a great idea on paper, but have been blunted by contact with human nature.
I think Highways England should have the right of reply on this article, but if it’s anything like the press release used for the magazine article, any dissent will just be dismissed as people who still need re-educating.
Ian
It's a rehashed piece of propaganda from Highways England, but written in a way that implies non-IAM drivers need to have things explained in words of one syllable (sorry, don’t want this to be an IAM bashing thread).
I.e. “just as drivers had to learn the different rules for motorways when they were first built, we now need to learn the additional rules for smart motorways.”
“This involves understanding the electronic signs, and knowing what to do if the car breaks down”.It doesn’t mention control room operators needing to learn the difference between animals being on the road, and animals not being on the road though.
“Research” has apparently determined that most faults still allow the car to be driven, so its simply a matter of leaving the motorway at the next junction. If it won’t make it that far, then simply drive to the next refuge area. Or, if that is too far, try to get the car off the carriage way, such as a grass verge, slip road or service area (as if you wouldn’t of thought of that yourself)
Small comfort for the driver in the youtube clip to know they are the exception to “research”.
Still, whatever the price of managed motorways, I imagine they’re still a damn sight cheaper than constructing additional lanes on the network. And marked BiB patrols cause tail backs nearly as bad as errant “50” signs.
Like most things, I’m sure they looked a great idea on paper, but have been blunted by contact with human nature.
I think Highways England should have the right of reply on this article, but if it’s anything like the press release used for the magazine article, any dissent will just be dismissed as people who still need re-educating.
Ian
Janesy B said:
speedyguy said:
I hope you were stood somewhere very safe up the verge then, the car is only a piece of scrap metal at the end of the day.
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the public, people don't make a nice sandwich filling between 2 lumps of metal
I was, well behind the barrier and always facing towards oncoming cars. I've seen too many youtube videos.NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the public, people don't make a nice sandwich filling between 2 lumps of metal
charltjr said:
You stopped in a live motorway lane for a puncture? Rather than limping the car to a safe place?
Interesting decision.
I was on the inside lane, as close as the car could get to the barrier. Just in case you thought I was just chilling out in the middle lane with a fag and paper.Interesting decision.
Cliftonite said:
This (from a different thread) shows why his decision was the right one. A slow moving vehicle is in virtually as much risk as a stationary one. The driver, though, is not.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
Exactly.https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=24s&feature=yout...
Edited by Janesy B on Wednesday 14th October 18:59
With a vehicle that was effectively stranded some distance from a place of refuge and already on the extreme left lane where could you go as the former place of refuge, the hard shoulder is now a live running lane.
Let's not forget that the government of the day decided to roll out smart motorways before the experiment had run the full course, and at the same time reduced the frequency of the laybys thus at the same time increasing the risk even further.
Add in the lack of knowledge about how to use these things, eg regularly see folks blundering down the hard shoulder overtaking on the left when the hard shoulder isn't been used as a live lane. Add in smart arsed comments from some on here who see the hard shoulder as an excuse to have a personal lane to blast up the inside of everybody ignoring all the rules and common sense.
Much sympathy with the wish to interrupt the patronising wombling with a wheel brace. Not often criticise the staff on the ground as they're just another trying to put a crust on the table, the real problem is with management, but this bod was clearly a t
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