RE: Jaguar XE S: Driven

[dukebox9reg]

Slinky1989 said:

kambites said:

I'm fairly confident (but not certain) that they're wrong. Does anyone know for sure?

ETA: Hmm, actually maybe they're right. I remember reading an article saying that it would use solely Jaguar engines but everything post-release seems to talk about Ford petrol engines. Maybe the Ingenium petrol isn't ready yet?

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th April 11:37

Petrol engine is still a Ford unit. The assembly plant for the petrol engine is still being built with production due to start next year.

All the Diesels are Ingenium.

XE's are basically fitted with the Ford Mondeo petrol turbo engines. So 200 and 240 (same as evoque) etc. New Jag Petrols aren't ready.

[Mr Will]

DonkeyApple said:

8bit said:

Again, the XE will have a number of things as standard that you have to select as options on the German alternatives, by the time you spec one of those up with the same toys the XE has as standard you're probably looking at much closer figures.

Having said that, I was playing with the XE config tool on Jaguar's website and was a little surprised at how many options there are.

Seems a silly tactic in a world where having the lowest headline figure is vital for marketing hence why everything is an optional extra.

Why would Jag not strip out these items you reference and allow a cheaper core unit price so as to fake looking cheaper just like everyone else in this segment?

It depends where you want to position yourself in the market. A high sticker price stops you looking like a cheap copy but then when it comes to purchase price you can close the gap with competitive lease deals.

[Pintofbest]

GTEYE said:

£50k would get you a pretty decent spec 5 Series/E Class/A6/XF from the class above.

This XE looks perhaps too similar to the £30k 2.0d XE's which are aiming at the sales rep market. And yes, the same comment also applies to 3 Series/C Class/A4 etc etc

I get your point but it's pretty applicable to volume manufacturers - 520d to 535 or even an M5 for example if comparing MSport with a few body kit add ons. A6 to S6, 118d to M135 etc.. Sometimes if more fun to just know you have the biggest engine/highest spec for instance and not worry what others think. It's not their car after all.

[kambites]

I'd far rather have a 300+bhp supercharged V6 XE than a four-pot XF for my £50k.

[8bit]

DonkeyApple said:

Seems a silly tactic in a world where having the lowest headline figure is vital for marketing hence why everything is an optional extra.

Why would Jag not strip out these items you reference and allow a cheaper core unit price so as to fake looking cheaper just like everyone else in this segment?

I can't speak for Jaguar's business thinking but it must take some of the frustration out when spec'ing a new car because the final price won't be as far from the starting point as it would if more stuff had to be specified as options. It also makes finding a used example with the right spec easier if you know they all have sat nav, cruise control, rear parking etc. (for example) as standard.

[DonkeyApple]

Mr Will said:

DonkeyApple said:

8bit said:

Again, the XE will have a number of things as standard that you have to select as options on the German alternatives, by the time you spec one of those up with the same toys the XE has as standard you're probably looking at much closer figures.

Having said that, I was playing with the XE config tool on Jaguar's website and was a little surprised at how many options there are.

Seems a silly tactic in a world where having the lowest headline figure is vital for marketing hence why everything is an optional extra.

Why would Jag not strip out these items you reference and allow a cheaper core unit price so as to fake looking cheaper just like everyone else in this segment?

It depends where you want to position yourself in the market. A high sticker price stops you looking like a cheap copy but then when it comes to purchase price you can close the gap with competitive lease deals.

Quite possibly. I'm sure they have placed an awful lot of thought and logic into this so there is probably good logic to it all. Like you say, maybe they want the prestige of being deemed superior by basic price and then matching on the monthly costs.

[Happyjap]

I feel this would be money well spent on this Auto car!

[GTEYE]

kambites said:

I'd far rather have a 300+bhp supercharged V6 XE than a four-pot XF for my £50k.

Why would you do that though?

Just as a for example - you could have:

306hp 535i M Sport Auto for £45k (list)...or

449hp 550i M Sport Auto (£58k list) wouldn't be far away from £50k after discount..

Only saying....

[kambites]

GTEYE said:

Why would you do that though?

Just as a for example - you could have:

306hp 535i M Sport Auto for £45k (list)...or

449hp 550i M Sport Auto (£58k list) wouldn't be far away from £50k after discount..

Only saying....

And what do they cost if you spec them up to the level of the Jag above?

That's not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know the answer. It's a shame that Jaguar don't do a lower spec version of the V6, though. £45k as an entry point does seem... unnecessary.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th April 19:05

[Wills2]

45K! That's crazy money, you can get a 335i for 30k after discount, so Jaguar need to well ahead or offer some huge discounts.

[J4CKO]

I wonder if they will offer it with the 500 bhp V8, beat the Germans at their own power race ?

[Wills2]

Merc already offer 510 in the C class so they'd have to up the power to acheive that, plus the XFR doesn't sell well compared to the M5 or E63 so I doubt an XEF would fare well against the M3 or C63.

Unless it was better and cheaper and looking the price and this apologetic review of the V6 model it wouldn't be.

[DP33]

XE-SVR with 542hp would certainly mix things up a bit. They've got to sort out their top-end pricing though, £45k / £550pm feels "ambitious" for 335hp.

[DonkeyApple]

Wills2 said:

Merc already offer 510 in the C class so they'd have to up the power to acheive that, plus the XFR doesn't sell well compared to the M5 or E63 so I doubt an XEF would fare well against the M3 or C63.

Unless it was better and cheaper and looking the price and this apologetic review of the V6 model it wouldn't be.

Merc went after M3 sales with their C63 by offering absolutely silly lease deals for about 3 years. Judging by the sheer number of them I now see around London their attack on taking market share from BMW seems to have worked. They've certainly put their product on the shelf next to the M3 in less than 5 years, which is pretty impressive.

I guess it shows that if JLR really wanted market share then it can be had but I suspect that it wouldn't benefit JLR as they wouldn't be building enough for such a strategy to work?

[SuperHangOn]

J4CKO said:

Vee12V said:

Sounds like they're where it's at but it looks horribly outdated already and at the time I saw it at the Brussels motor show the quality of used materials in the cockpit was shockingly bad. Hope they've improved in the mean time but I'm still sceptical.

Horribly Outdated, in what way ? looks like a modern saloon car to me and given the constraints of the format, a pretty good looking one, not sure what any other manufacturers are doing that doesn't look outdated ?

I think they played it a bit too safe - it's very generic mid 00's and will probably need a heavy facelift in a few years.

[Alex P]

If you can really get a 335i for 30k brand new, why on Earth would anybody, this side of a company car driver, be driving any other version of a 3-series, unless, with discounts you can buy a base 3 for £20k?

If you research the specifications, the XE S has almost everything you want (and more) as standard, e.g. merdian Hi-Fi, power boot lid, electric seats etc. etc. The two main improvements that should be offered IMO are the option of a manual gearbox (it is a sports saloon after all) and less 'Max Power' interior options for those who like things a bit more 'Jaguar'.

Yes £45k is a lot of money, but then an F-type coupe, with the same engine, similar kerb weight, much lower standard kit and less space, starts at £50k plus.

It would be great if jaguar did offer the V6 on the other (lower) specifications but I think it will be unlikely. The S is a handsome car, reasonably practical, the right size ( for UK A/B roads), has character and is built in Britain, so in buying one you will be doing more for 'team GB' than anything any politician you may elect on May the 7th will do.

[GTEYE]

kambites said:

GTEYE said:

Why would you do that though?

Just as a for example - you could have:

306hp 535i M Sport Auto for £45k (list)...or

449hp 550i M Sport Auto (£58k list) wouldn't be far away from £50k after discount..

Only saying....

And what do they cost if you spec them up to the level of the Jag above?

That's not a rhetorical question, I genuinely don't know the answer. It's a shame that Jaguar don't do a lower spec version of the V6, though. £45k as an entry point does seem... unnecessary.

Edited by kambites on Monday 27th April 19:05

They come with heated leather, nav, xenons etc, which covers what most people would want...

[DonkeyApple]

GTEYE said:

They come with heated leather, nav, xenons etc, which covers what most people would want...

Are indicators and mirrors standard? I think they are options on the German cars.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Matt UK said:

Shambler said:

Bloody Heavy old thing for all that aluminium

I think mass saved on the overall structure has been 'invested' elsewhere

Indeed. PH had an article discussing just that. They used the weight to make better components for things like suspension.

[8bit]

GTEYE said:

Why would you do that though?

Just as a for example - you could have:

306hp 535i M Sport Auto for £45k (list)...or

449hp 550i M Sport Auto (£58k list) wouldn't be far away from £50k after discount..

Only saying....

You'd do it if you didn't want something as large/heavy as the 5-series though. XE is in the same segment as the 3-series. XF is in the same segment as 5-series. They're different beasts.