RE: Subaru Impreza 22B: PH Heroes

[custardtart]

I'm pretty sure a Golf R wouldn't see which way one fo these went. Slower, heavier and softer all round.

This is one of those rare cases of an older model kicking the arse if the modern one.

[rossub]

hwajones said:

I love these 3 door models but how could anyone justify paying £40-50k for one!?

Bonkers

Its not bonkers in the slightest. The market for these is worldwide - not just the UK. You've got a whole playstation generation across Europe, Asia and the US (once they're 25 years old) aspiring to one of these and they're chasing maybe 300 cars at most. Much less than that in low mileage mint condition.

In years to come we're going to look back and think £50k was a bargain.

[rb5er]

Yep, far less bonkers that e30 M3, integrale & Cosworth prices.

Supply and demand but very little supply.

[andrewcliffe]

I was lucky enough to secure two of the original Japanese allocation.

One was used by Evo magazine for their road test in issue 1, that car went to live in Colorado USA a long time ago.

Not sure what happened to the other one.

[mmcd87]

custardtart said:

I'm pretty sure a Golf R wouldn't see which way one fo these went. Slower, heavier and softer all round.

This is one of those rare cases of an older model kicking the arse if the modern one.

Between a Golf R with DSG and a 22B with average drivers in both I'd bet the Golf would be the quicker car in the real world, certainly wouldn't get lost.

[big_rob_sydney]

mmcd87 said:

Between a Golf R with DSG and a 22B with average drivers in both I'd bet the Golf would be the quicker car in the real world, certainly wouldn't get lost.

Not sure if you've seen it, but in a comparison with the 22B vs the 400bhp Cosworth version, the 22B was better under brakes, despite not having ABS, and was faster to 110mph off the line, only being beaten when speeds went much higher, over the distance of 1 mile.

In short, if a 400bhp modern car requires such long distances to defeat a lightweight older car, then I would expect over a short twisty course that the lighter car would win out.

I dont know much about the Golf, but would venture to say it doesnt have 400bhp unless you mean the latest one thats been talked about (400r IIRC?).

As for standard Golf GTIs, I'd be very surprised if it could run with the 22B. In my 7 years of ownership, there were very few cars that could, and they all cost a lot more money (eg Porsche GT3, and even that was close, with him just walking me from the top of 4th onwards).

[mat205125]

big_rob_sydney said:

mmcd87 said:

Between a Golf R with DSG and a 22B with average drivers in both I'd bet the Golf would be the quicker car in the real world, certainly wouldn't get lost.

Not sure if you've seen it, but in a comparison with the 22B vs the 400bhp Cosworth version, the 22B was better under brakes, despite not having ABS, and was faster to 110mph off the line, only being beaten when speeds went much higher, over the distance of 1 mile.

In short, if a 400bhp modern car requires such long distances to defeat a lightweight older car, then I would expect over a short twisty course that the lighter car would win out.

I dont know much about the Golf, but would venture to say it doesnt have 400bhp unless you mean the latest one thats been talked about (400r IIRC?).

As for standard Golf GTIs, I'd be very surprised if it could run with the 22B. In my 7 years of ownership, there were very few cars that could, and they all cost a lot more money (eg Porsche GT3, and even that was close, with him just walking me from the top of 4th onwards).

I think it would be a close call, however with the caveat that mmcd87 includes above, I think that the Golf would be quicker in the real world.

Joe Bloggs on the street would be far happier leaning on the wider tyres and stability systems in the Golf, and monstering the brake pedal to the carpet to slow down.

The first sign of a kick from the rear of the Scooby, or a snatch / lock of brakes would have them stting themselves and backing off, whilst their doppelganger in the Golf "heroically" disappeared into the distance.

[Raven Flyer]

I should be amazed that these are now changing hands for well over £100k... but I'm not.

Such a stunning car and well deserving of its rarity.

[Smifffy]

Sorry to pop a few balloons but - to drive - I felt the 22b was hugely overrated. The P1 was a much better car with the prodrive chassis tweaks and the 330mm brakes.

The 22b always felt 'previous generation' to me.

I admit - having it on the driveway was great to look at. I never tired of seeing the hips in the rear view mirror but on a B road blast the 22b wouldn't keep pace with a P1 & the P1 driver would be having more fun.

The P1 was telepathic - truly connected & the 22b felt agricultural in comparison.

[cerb4.5lee]

Smifffy said:

Sorry to pop a few balloons but - to drive - I felt the 22b was hugely overrated. The P1 was a much better car with the prodrive chassis tweaks and the 330mm brakes.

The 22b always felt 'previous generation' to me.

I admit - having it on the driveway was great to look at. I never tired of seeing the hips in the rear view mirror but on a B road blast the 22b wouldn't keep pace with a P1 & the P1 driver would be having more fun.

The P1 was telepathic - truly connected & the 22b felt agricultural in comparison.

I've always read that the P1 was a much better overall car in comparison to the 22B as well. Which backs up what you are saying.

[rossub]

The P1 is a V5 Type R with some of the good bits removed, always will be.

It will never be the icon that the 22B is.

I don’t think the Audi Sport Quattro is hailed as a wonderful drive, but it is utterly iconic.

[LotusOmega375D]

Also didn’t the P1 have a shocking reputation for reliability?

[Terminator X]

P1 was just a v5 Jap STi not even altered that much afaik.

TX.

[cerb4.5lee]

rossub said:

The P1 is a V5 Type R with some of the good bits removed, always will be.

It will never be the icon that the 22B is.

I don’t think the Audi Sport Quattro is hailed as a wonderful drive, but it is utterly iconic.

Don't get me wrong I lusted after the 22B big time at the time and it is definitely an icon. I was just really surprised because every review I read on the 22B they all said that the P1 was the much better car overall. I was expecting this to be better than the P1 that's all.

[jjones]

LotusOmega375D said:

Also didn’t the P1 have a shocking reputation for reliability?

If you ran them on super i think there were ok. Problem was people didn't and ended up with detonation destroying the bottom ends.

[rossub]

jjones said:

LotusOmega375D said:

Also didn’t the P1 have a shocking reputation for reliability?

If you ran them on super i think there were ok. Problem was people didn't and ended up with detonation destroying the bottom ends.

My recollection is that they had the same map as the V5 Type R, which required 100 Ron fuel. I think the best fuel we had at the time was 98.

[Smifffy]

Yep.

My P1 lunched its engine @ 43k miles & I always ran it on 98ron.

The 22b is an icon - hence the current valuations. However - if I spent £150+k on a 22b today, apart from looking at it, I'd be horribly disappointed.

I also don't really understand the valuations. The 22b was a celebration car - not a homologation.

The P1 was exceptional. I haven't bothered googling the exact changes that prodrive made, but they amounted to an astonishing package. The damping was just unreal.

My conclusion is that rarity, looks and the whole late 90s rally scene has added to an emotional attachment to the 22b for those who've never driven one. I get it - enough that I bought one. But - if you offered me either right now with 0 miles on the clock, it'd be the P1 every time.

[epom]

P1 might be better but I’ve lusted after a 22B ever since Evo issue 4 ? Sitting there in the long grass.
Seems to be just too much jawline on the P1 for me.

For what it’s worth wasn’t the RB5 PPP supposedly the sweetest spot of the Impreza range ?

[s m]

epom said:

For what it’s worth wasn’t the RB5 PPP supposedly the sweetest spot of the Impreza range ?

Depends what magazine/journalist you put stock in I’d say.

[Smifffy]

I test the RB5 before buying the P1.

Very similar - just the P1 felt more endowed. The RB5 had a lovely balance, but not that quick.

The sad part of all the imprezas - for me - was that they didn't last that long. After 80k of hard miles I found they were done. Finished. Worn out.

Given enough investment to keep them fresh I'm sure they'd be great & I've been thinking about this recently. But with many of the high mileage models on offer recently you need to go in with eyes open on the effort to get them back to the standards of the late 90s.